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Why does Overwatch(commander) exist?

9 Nov 2022, 16:32 PM
#1
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

I struggle to find a valid reason to answer the title.Guard Motor always seems to be in the discussion of being OP/broken yet never Overwatch, despite being the most used OKW doctrine by far.

Overwatch is viable 1v1 to 4v4 and is beneficial throughout the match.Apparently the post UKF-launch salt of Axis players was strong enough to birth this commander into existence, at least that's my assumption considering I started playing in 2017.

That assumption seems to have a lot of ground to stand on though, considering how thoroughly this doctrine counters UKF.I'd say that it's justified to just outright /l a match if you see JLI whilst playing UKF, it's probably part of the reason why my playtime with UKF has dropped so much in the past couple of months, every OKW player given the chance instalocks Overwatch when they see the UKF faction icon.

JLI will make your life living hell if you play UKF(not that they aren't strong against other allied factions too).JLI also mesh well with KT+JP4 "strategies", not as strong as just having Spearhead+Panzer commander sight but it still means a lot to be able to cloak your inf in light cover and use them as free extended vision.

LEFH will make short work of any UKF emplacements, or everything else too if you don't have a recon+direct strike combo.

Goliath can be used to get a cheap kill on a unsuspecting opponent if they haven't heard it's distinctive engine noise in the FoW or don't have wire cutters nearby to detect it.


FtF is a nice bonus but seldom seen used(probably because it actually isn't necessary most of the time to win infantry engagements.

Sector Assault is utterly broken, no two ways about it.A single player should NOT be able to call in 4
AT planes that oftentimes can simply overwhelm a allied defense despite AA being present due to the sheer number of planes.This is now an even bigger issue after the M5 Quad has been nerfed in it's AA ability.

This doctrine seems like something you play when you want to turn your brain off but still do well.

Also:

9 Nov 2022, 18:26 PM
#2
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 725

well JLI are just broken as shit to begin with they are like bullet proof pathfinders. Vetted they can literally just stand there with airlanding officer tripple brenned and two 5 man IS brenned and look at you funny spotting for lefh or leigs or stuka or werfer what ever there team has. There is zero reason why they should dodge bullets like that with good dps.
9 Nov 2022, 20:57 PM
#3
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1

It exists so that braindead OKW only players have a shot at a decent W/L ratio when they don't feel like going Grand Assault
9 Nov 2022, 23:27 PM
#4
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716

Son of balance team,after rework commander many time,they make worst commander be most OP.
10 Nov 2022, 00:27 AM
#5
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 763

Son of balance team...


I can't explain why exactly, but this phrase made me laugh.
10 Nov 2022, 13:41 PM
#6
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217



Sector Assault is utterly broken, no two ways about it.A single player should NOT be able to call in 4

AT planes that oftentimes can simply overwhelm a allied defense despite AA being present due to the sheer number of planes.This is now an even bigger issue after the M5 Quad has been nerfed in it's AA ability.



i think it is 2 AT planes and 2 AI plane. Still it make straffing support look like a joke. I dare anyone saying this is not the strongest loiter of the entire game atm.
10 Nov 2022, 14:52 PM
#7
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191



i think it is 2 AT planes and 2 AI plane. Still it make straffing support look like a joke. I dare anyone saying this is not the strongest loiter of the entire game atm.

I've never felt an AI effect on my squads from Sector Assault, either it doesn't have AI planes or I was just focused on not getting my armor strafed.
10 Nov 2022, 19:54 PM
#8
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1


I've never felt an AI effect on my squads from Sector Assault, either it doesn't have AI planes or I was just focused on not getting my armor strafed.


It just pins. Which is just as bad when you can't snare or have AT squads to fend off the tank dive that's paired with the offmap.
10 Nov 2022, 21:09 PM
#9
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1482

Why does 72.5 sight range KT with HEAT shells exist?
Why did ISU have 70 range HE shells?
Why does ST have high armour, HP and deals massive AOE?
Why is Pershing inferior in all regards to a Tiger?
Why are paths a mainline infantry?
Why is the balance team braindead?

You could go on an on. Fact is, Sander, Sturmpanther and their cronies are backwater brainiacs when it comes to balance
11 Nov 2022, 12:12 PM
#10
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

Why does 72.5 sight range KT with HEAT shells exist?
Why did ISU have 70 range HE shells?
Why does ST have high armour, HP and deals massive AOE?
Why is Pershing inferior in all regards to a Tiger?
Why are paths a mainline infantry?
Why is the balance team braindead?

You could go on an on. Fact is, Sander, Sturmpanther and their cronies are backwater brainiacs when it comes to balance


Why does the CoH franchise deliberately appeal to wehraboos so much?
Why was Lefh counter-battery able to target and track moving arty pieces in the FoW?

ST armor isn't even very high, it's close to a OKW P4, but it has the same if not more HP than the Churchill vetted.I had a match a year or more ago on Rails and Metal before the ST projectile collision patch was released, and even then it was busted with it's sight wiping at least 5 of my squads, racking up 55+ kills and my SU85 barely if ever spotting it before it fired off a nuke.

IMO ISU was just never that strong, Ele and Jagd can always turn the tide of a match into the favour of the Axis, but the ISU will not be able to make up the difference most of the time if you aren't already winning, especially with it's unfavourable matchup against the former two.It's AT potential is roughly equal to a single SU85, and that's ridiculous.
11 Nov 2022, 12:32 PM
#11
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 118



Why does the CoH franchise deliberately appeal to wehraboos so much?
Why was Lefh counter-battery able to target and track moving arty pieces in the FoW?

ST armor isn't even very high, it's close to a OKW P4, but it has the same if not more HP than the Churchill vetted.I had a match a year or more ago on Rails and Metal before the ST projectile collision patch was released, and even then it was busted with it's sight wiping at least 5 of my squads, racking up 55+ kills and my SU85 barely if ever spotting it before it fired off a nuke.

IMO ISU was just never that strong, Ele and Jagd can always turn the tide of a match into the favour of the Axis, but the ISU will not be able to make up the difference most of the time if you aren't already winning, especially with it's unfavourable matchup against the former two.It's AT potential is roughly equal to a single SU85, and that's ridiculous.


Yeah you do appear to have quite a one-eyed perspective.
11 Nov 2022, 14:02 PM
#12
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191



Yeah you do appear to have quite a one-eyed perspective.

How so?
11 Nov 2022, 15:18 PM
#13
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2755 | Subs: 4

Fact Check:


Why does ST have high armour


because it doesn't


Why is Pershing inferior in all regards to a Tiger?


because it isn't, if you simply compare their AI performance and take Combined Arms into account


Why are paths a mainline infantry?


because every faction has multiple choices for their mainline infantry


Why is the balance team braindead?


'Try not to make mediocre af one-faction heroes upset with your balance patches' challenge (impossible)
11 Nov 2022, 15:23 PM
#14
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2755 | Subs: 4



Overwatch doc is kinda stupid, but that's not rly a bad thing imo because it's the last reason why we don't see omega-boring Elite Armor doc every single match, so at least it brings a bit of variety.


And the door swings both ways for this "OP doc" argument. USF has airborne, Soviets have Guard Motor & Mechanized Support, Brits have Royal Engineers & Commandos, Wehrmacht has Jaeger Armor & Mechanized etc etc
11 Nov 2022, 16:36 PM
#15
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 118



Overwatch doc is kinda stupid, but that's not rly a bad thing imo because it's the last reason why we don't see omega-boring Elite Armor doc every single match, so at least it brings a bit of variety.


And the door swings both ways for this "OP doc" argument. USF has airborne, Soviets have Guard Motor & Mechanized Support, Brits have Royal Engineers & Commandos, Wehrmacht has Jaeger Armor & Mechanized etc etc


Agreed. Hopefully in 3 all the factions will end up being fully fleshed out with all the correct tools, or if not, they'll at least be easier to balance. That way there won't be a need for the OP crutches that several of the current ones rely on, just to keep them somewhat competitive. This thought is probably WAY too optimistic though.
11 Nov 2022, 16:37 PM
#16
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 118


How so?


You only ever seem to complain about how unfair the game is for allies and when you do, you are prone to exaggerating.
11 Nov 2022, 18:08 PM
#17
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1



Overwatch doc is kinda stupid, but that's not rly a bad thing imo because it's the last reason why we don't see omega-boring Elite Armor doc every single match, so at least it brings a bit of variety.


And the door swings both ways for this "OP doc" argument. USF has airborne, Soviets have Guard Motor & Mechanized Support, Brits have Royal Engineers & Commandos, Wehrmacht has Jaeger Armor & Mechanized etc etc


its not really justified to defend a strong doctrine with another slightly stronger doctrine lmao

the tools that you get, combined with what you already have available, give you way too much options and variety in a single doctrine.


OW doctrine gives you more tools than the elite armor doc, so I wouldn't call it stronger after the ST nerf lol
11 Nov 2022, 18:38 PM
#18
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1482

Fact Check:



because it doesn't



because it isn't, if you simply compare their AI performance and take Combined Arms into account



because every faction has multiple choices for their mainline infantry



'Try not to make mediocre af one-faction heroes upset with your balance patches' challenge (impossible)



What do you call 220 armour paired with 1000+ HP?
Combined arms promotes blobbing, something you shouldn't do, especially with USF. Completely useless outside of some big brain hail Mary's.
Paths should not really be mainline-material. It's poor design. Neither should JLIs and the likes, but here we are.
Want me to play all 5 factions when the only time I play COH2 is a couple of games during the weekends? Sure, I'll try to play all 5 factions. One faction each weekend. Playing COH2 for 7-8 years, got 1400 games, over 7.5 years is about 1.6 games per day. Take into account that a lot of games are quick ones, where you either surrender because of the MM, or the enemy does. So you have about 500 "good" long games, worth something. Sure, I'll play COH2 like some people who have 15000+ games, basically living in COH2.
11 Nov 2022, 19:13 PM
#19
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2755 | Subs: 4




What do you call 220 armour paired with 1000+ HP?


HP yes, but 220 is far away from "high armor"
11 Nov 2022, 20:08 PM
#20
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1



HP yes, but 220 is far away from "high armor"


it is high enough for a 1200 to 1450 hp vehicle lol



iirc it has the most hp in the game
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