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Sander's personal balance changes

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8 Jul 2020, 10:29 AM
#121
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Recrewing team weapons


An interesting idea but would need to be tested since most re crewed weapon would die if 1 model was killed and it might have the opposite effect.


Headquarters



That would be a buff to Ostheer but I see little reason for it. Actually it UKF that need to lose some healing options instead of ostheer getting more.


Pioneers

A good change but with little impact would rather see the +20% vet 2 accuracy replaced by the received accuracy buff.



Teller Mines


An interesting change but would need some testing a crippled T-70 remain dangerous vs grenadier trying to faust it.

Imo engine damage should set the speed of vehicle at a certain number and not be % of the vehicle's speed.

One could even take it further where first snare does "engine damage" with specific speed and second snare (or second snare +HP threshold does heavy damage with specific speed)


Grenadiers



A sound change.


222

Problem with many wheeled vehicles is the big multiplier for driving off and on road and imo that is what it should be look at. At for 222 imo the 221 should be reintroduced and 222 redesigned.
8 Jul 2020, 11:40 AM
#122
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2020, 01:24 AMRocket


Not even an axis player has mentioned it why mess with things that no one has asked for. Then ignore things everyone asked for okw arty flares free map hacks but dont even dress it. Amazing isnt it.

Read the title a few times.
Also arty flares were in there iirc. Going from normal ez mode vision to a Los buff for units in range.
8 Jul 2020, 15:08 PM
#123
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833


I don't really want to create a battle bus that can heal squads on the way to / in between / after engagements. The difference compared to the 251 is that the latter doesn't have fire from hold.



I disagree. In my experience the majority of times a rammed (super)heavy can still move out of the way of the offmap after only getting stunned. It's usually the (heavy) engine damage that makes it too slow to get away in time (after also getting stunned) or that leaves it incredibly vulnerable to a follow up attack.


I remember you posting saying the balance team was looking at the feasibility of a overhaul of bolster, squad sizes and British infantry balance in general

Any ETA when this is due or is it off the cards?
8 Jul 2020, 19:31 PM
#124
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

There is nothing perfect about removing a unique and clutch ability to make room. Counterintuitive to the game's core concept too.


Isn’t that what you want to do to the 222’s infantry detection ability?
9 Jul 2020, 01:56 AM
#125
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



I remember you posting saying the balance team was looking at the feasibility of a overhaul of bolster, squad sizes and British infantry balance in general

Any ETA when this is due or is it off the cards?


he said a bit back that they are not sure how long relic will support patching and that hes worried about making such a drastic change that might not have the support to be properly balanced
9 Jul 2020, 13:05 PM
#126
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Panzerwerfer (experimental change)


Well PW could use a different vet 1 ability but I am not sure why one want to homogenize faction more.


Panther


If Panther is meant to be a heavy tank counter why increase the accuracy?
Imo one should reconsider the changes in Ostheer Panther that made is more expensive. There is little reason for OKW and Ostheer Panther to similar and cost the same. The unit should be fit its role within the faction.

Alternatively could be a moving accuracy bonus (from 0.5 to 0.6) that’s more in line with its tank hunter role



Veteran Squad Leader (German Infantry)


Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade (G43 Grenadiers)



Why so much messing with g43?
Why increase the DPS drop off for losing model in g43 grenadier?

Combine these 2 abilities into 1 making grenadier have 5 G43 and model them after riflemen.


Stug III ausf.E


That would be an improvement but I would rather see the following changes:

MG upgrade available
Hollow charge firing mode with a range of 40


Artillery Field Officer

Imo all smg units should have something 15-25% reinforcement discount (and and ability like divert fire).
Unit should also have reinforcement cost reduced and a way to upgrade the luger into something more powerful


Panzer Tactician


Similar change for all self-defense smoke.
9 Jul 2020, 13:56 PM
#127
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

Regarding the UKF medics:

The UKF medic squad was a good try by the balance team, but it has not worked out. As long as UKFs main healing still comes from IS, there is little reason for that unit to exist. The pyro upgrade is nice and all, but very optional in the end and people still go for the healing upgrade.
Make the medic squad too good and it replaces even a potential FOB, make it too bad and no one uses it. But at the moment I don't see much of a niche for that squad. It's meant as supplemental healing because balance team expected less healing sections. The issue is: no one needs supplemental healing.
Either it takes too long and you are better off with a FOB or the healing upgrade, or the squad heals quickly and replaces both of these. Additionally, the squad is very clunky to use which would be addressed by Sander's suggestion. But this suggestion basically turns it into a worse ambulance. And from what we see with USF, ambulances are most of the time parked in the base anyway. For base healing, UKF can already build the FOB for an okayish price. For forward healing, UKF already has the IS upgrade. Despite suggesting the same as Sanders some weeks ago, I now have to admit that don't see the niche anymore for the UKF medic squad. UKF's current healing options can handle all the needs already and fit to the factions design, so why not work with that?
9 Jul 2020, 16:38 PM
#128
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Tiger I


Moving some of the power of these units to vetted state seem a step in the right direction for all super heavy vehicles


Relief Infantry


The ability described was in the game as "recoup losses" and it was removed so I am not sure why now it will be more successful. One could try to make a passive and lower the return to around 2 MP.

But I would rather have another ability that provides "relief osstruppen" 6 men squad wih target size 1 that can merge but not reinforce.


Stuka Smoke Bombs


Makes sense



Command Tank



Glad to see that it has been recognized that the unit has been overnerf.
I would rather see an addition number of changes like:
Aura that scale with vet
Aura separated into passive and active
Gun with a profile similar to Stug-E with sorter range
Hollow charge AT fire mode
Some recon ability involving the commander animation
XP value/vet bonuses brought in line



Hull Down


An improvement. Additionally I would like to see bones for different units.



Jaeger Armor Doctrine



Glad to see that what I have pointed out year ago is being considered.
Maybe instead of camo for infantry a camo for Packs?

In addition with the removal stuka one should probably have a look at Riegel mine and spotting scope since both abilities are rather weak compare to similar abilities for taking up a slot.
9 Jul 2020, 18:45 PM
#129
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 127

USF changes

Missing

I don't like sprinting tripple elite zook 5 man high survivability Rangers rendering my vehicles useless without any activated braincells from my opponent. Why was this implemented? Double Schreck Pgrens are balanced because of their vulnerability of getting wiped but the same can't be said about Rangers and on top of that 3 elite zooks pack a way harder punch than 2 Pschrecks. Make it so the Rangers can only pick up two elite zooks and not three.


I just wish to make sure you understand a few things:
You do know that Rangers are a DOCTRINAL unit that costs MORE than PZGs and has to invest MORE into it's AT role (150 ammo vs 100 if I am not mistaken) and render them useless vs infantry, but, again, if it's not just me and my own bias, a lil bit more useless than PZGs with Shrecks?

If someone has already discussed this point with you-I apologize, I just didn't want to read through everyone's posts.
9 Jul 2020, 18:57 PM
#130
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Very much with Vipper on the command tank. Active abilities instead of passive Aura as auras just lead to doom blobs. I want the stubby p4 to be good in its own right but also a force multiplier like all the other officer/command units. Please don't leave this one in the past!
9 Jul 2020, 23:46 PM
#131
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682



I just wish to make sure you understand a few things:
You do know that Rangers are a DOCTRINAL unit that costs MORE than PZGs and has to invest MORE into it's AT role (150 ammo vs 100 if I am not mistaken) and render them useless vs infantry, but, again, if it's not just me and my own bias, a lil bit more useless than PZGs with Shrecks?

If someone has already discussed this point with you-I apologize, I just didn't want to read through everyone's posts.


Rangers and paras with zooks are a little different. They're not just shitty standard bazookas. They're very much capable of hurting t3 ostheer. A lot more dicey against OKW p4 and brumbars though.
10 Jul 2020, 09:46 AM
#132
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



he said a bit back that they are not sure how long relic will support patching and that hes worried about making such a drastic change that might not have the support to be properly balanced


Now that is doubtful, considering mirage and sander have posted almost two pages of balance changes between them
10 Jul 2020, 09:51 AM
#133
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Now that is doubtful, considering mirage and sander have posted almost two pages of balance changes between them

And if you paid attention, you would notice its their personal suggestions, wishlists.
It does not mean they will be allowed to continue making changes, its 100% up to relic and with Andy moving on, that leaves a whooping total of ZERO people assigned to CoH2 with technical knowledge on relic site.
10 Jul 2020, 11:28 AM
#134
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2020, 09:51 AMKatitof

And if you paid attention, you would notice its their personal suggestions, wishlists.
It does not mean they will be allowed to continue making changes, its 100% up to relic and with Andy moving on, that leaves a whooping total of ZERO people assigned to CoH2 with technical knowledge on relic site.


Plus, most of the changes in this list at least are more like tweaks than redesigns. While I believe that a Tommy overhaul is needed I understand the difference between swapping some vet effects and changing the very makeup of core infantry
10 Jul 2020, 11:37 AM
#135
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2020, 09:51 AMKatitof
its 100% up to relic and with Andy moving on, that leaves a whooping total of ZERO people assigned to CoH2 with technical knowledge on relic site.


Hell yeah, no more patches :banana:
10 Jul 2020, 12:35 PM
#136
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Combat Engineers


A good change.


Penals (experimental change)


Happy to see that what I have been saying all along about Penal has been recognized and my suggestion about a weapon upgrade is considered. On the other hand the number simply do not seem to add up.

With a cost of 280 and 4 SVT they would be more cost efficient than PF
With AI upgrade for 50 they would be more cost efficient that AI PF with a cost of 295+80 mu

Also smoke grenades and satchel is a very big no non since they will be able attack frontally and blow up things.

On the other hand imo one has to rethink what role this is unit is supposed to fill since there is allot of overlap with other units and I would rather see a redesign of the unit.


M5 Halftrack


Nice to see that quad being OP in AA is recognized. I would suggest thou that all AA asset get separate AA mode so that weapon are better balanced.

I am also not sure why this obsession with giving more stock healing option to all faction. Imo it actually the faction that have too many that should be reduced instead.



SU-76


A solid change


T-70


A change in the right direction but simply not enough.

Imo one should at least try to lower the squad wiping capability in chasing units. One could try to either increase scatter on the move a lot or decrease it a lot so the unit miss more when firing on retreating unit.



SU-85


Both change in the right direction but not enough. The unit is simply to effective vs PzIV while it can self spot. How about lower power level by reducing stat and price.



Katyusha



A good change.
10 Jul 2020, 14:28 PM
#137
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 127

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2020, 23:46 PMKoRneY


Rangers and paras with zooks are a little different. They're not just shitty standard bazookas. They're very much capable of hurting t3 ostheer. A lot more dicey against OKW p4 and brumbars though.

I wasn't comparing Paras' Zooks to Rangers' Zooks. In fact, I wasn't even thinking about Paras, I was comparing triple Rangers' Zooks with PZGs' Shrecks.
10 Jul 2020, 14:31 PM
#138
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


I wasn't comparing Paras' Zooks to Rangers' Zooks. In fact, I wasn't even thinking about Paras, I was comparing triple Rangers' Zooks with PZGs' Shrecks.

3 bazooka ranges are far more dangerous AT unit than AT PGs, but that is a bit off topic.
10 Jul 2020, 14:34 PM
#139
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2


I wasn't comparing Paras' Zooks to Rangers' Zooks. In fact, I wasn't even thinking about Paras, I was comparing triple Rangers' Zooks with PZGs' Shrecks.

I think you are misunderstanding him. Korney did not compare Paras and Rangers, his point was that elite bazookas are good vs OST T3.

I am also unsure of where he wanted to go with that, but that's how it is.
10 Jul 2020, 14:46 PM
#140
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 127

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2020, 14:31 PMVipper

3 bazooka ranges are far more dangerous AT unit than AT PGs, but that is a bit off topic.

Well, yes, but that's the point, since, as I've mentioned earlier, they are DOCTRINAL and MORE EXPENSIVE (calling-in and equipping them with Zooks).
I write in caps because I dunno how to underline a word on this site...
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