Riflemen are a 280mp 5 man squad. My proposal would make sections a 300mp 5 man squad. Huge difference apparently.
As for the British theme, this would be better represented using weapon profiles and moving DPS than cover bonuses.
300MP for a SINGLE MAINLINE UNIT FOR THE ENTIRE FACTION is still too much no matter how many men it will have, even 8 for fuck's sake. Once there is a cheaper type, you can do that to IS, but IS is the only Mainline, thus it's a huge NO from a balance standpoint.
The British Theme is about staying in Cover and firing from it, doing massive damage but being vulnerable to artillery as same Grens are, for example, and that's why Brits have the Cover bonus, Emplacement, such a good MG and ATG and more and more...
Also their PIAT is a Zooka that doesn't fire straight but from an angle, telling you it can be fired really effectively from cover, again, proving the WW1 theme warfare point.
Because the post is long I thought I'd better type the USA separately:
The Luit is the starting unit now, the Luit Tier is now Captain's, Captain's now Major's and Major's now Colonel's.
Each Officer unit has 3 upgrades:
a) 1 BAR + 1 Zooka=100 Ammo.
b) 2 BARs=100 Ammo.
c) 2 Zookas=100 Ammo.
Colonel is going to have each of the upgrades cost 40 more ammo as it will give him 2 more guys, his guards are going to be Rangers.
The only change is that REs are switched to Assault Sappers as REs will be a doctrinal Mainline type and the M2HB HMG is unlockable once you Tier up to any of the 2 at the start, costs 260 MP and has slightly less suppression and AP rounds at Vet 1.
2) T1 (Captain):
The only change is in costs of units and that it will have Rangers instead of HMG.
Rangers are un-touched except they will have 1 more upgrade:
b) 2 BARs and 1 more guy to the squad with a Thompson=140 Ammo.
3) T2 (Major):
The only change is that Pack Howi is Doc. and instead is a squad of Cavalry Riflemen with no Thompsons upgrade but get 2 Thompsons at Vet 2... and cost adjustments for other units.
3) T3 (Colonel):
Nothing except Sherman can be trade-off for an E8 with slightly worse stats than the Vet 3 usual 75mm Sherman.
Scott can also trade-off for a Bulldozer Sherman.
I am one of the developers for the mod Imperial Japanese Forces and, at the moment, my job is playtesting, giving ideas and telling what units to balance out and how, all that 50% of the entire work, if in short, but the thing is that once the 7th Japanese commander is done and all the balance issues are fixed, my friend Ghost (let's short it so) won't do any more coding, thus I will have to do all the other 4 factions, as I wanted an overhaul.
The thing is I have foundation for 3 of them: The Ober Kommando West, The United Soviet Socialist Republic, The United States of America, but not for the UK (I forgot the full name of the Kingdom). And that's BAD.
I am going to spill out what I will try to do for the other 3 factions so people will be able to base the changes on them, not on nothing.
OKW (a combo of Wehr and OKW):
5 Men squad for 260MP and 25 to reinforce. Their models are: 4 Osttruppen with K98 rifles and 1 Volk with an STG-44. Will have a Flame Grenade and Faust achieved after Veterancy 1.
Their upgrades are:
a) 4-5 MP-40s, (possibly changing their Flame to a standard Model 24) and able to do a Ass. Grens' massive grenade throw after Vet 3~50-60 Ammo.
b) JLI Type (meaning that it will have to stand still to fire to be effective) Gewehr 43 instead of the STG-44 and a Stun grenade or Wehr Snipers' flaming round ability at Vet 2~45-50 Ammo.
4 Men squad for 250 MP and 25-27 to reinforce. Their models are: 2 OKW Sappers with 2 STG-44s and 2 Wehr Sappers with MP-40s. Have OKW AT Mine, OKW Barbed Wire, Wehr Mine Fields, Bunkers (unlockable when T1's built).
Their upgrades are:
a) 2 more STG-44s with a slightly better survivability and ability to Salvage (possibly)~70-80 Ammo.
b) Both Flamer and Shreck upgrade into 1 for both Wehr models~110-120 Ammo.
3. Motorized infantry.
3 Men squad for 300-320 MP and from 30 to 35 for reinforce. Their models are PZGrens with Obers level K98s. (not sure about their abilities really, help here too please)
Their upgrades are:
a) Gewehr 43 rifles- 3 of them 1 JLI and 2 Grenadier (meaning good at all ranges and at moving) types with getting 4th guy with a K98 and lowered reinforcement cost~100-110 Ammo.
b) STG-44s upgrade for 3 STGs and 4th guy (lowered reinf. cost) with an MP-40~120-130 Ammo.
c) Shreck upgrade as the 4th guy comes in and gets it, same cost for reinf. reduction~90 Ammo.
d) (DOCTRINAL!) MG-42 Grenadiers style and 4th guy with K98 and cost reduction~80-90 Ammo.
4. Kubel, as it is.
2) T1 (Wehr playstyle's more common here):
1) LeiG (because it has more range than mortar thus more Defensive)
2) MG-42 HMG.
300 MP+27-30 MP Reinf. 4 Men squad with 3 Grenadier models with K98s and 1 Ober model with an STG-44.
a) MG-42 with a Riflenade and being more stationary, after Vet 2-3 the squad's suppressing a bit while firing=60 Ammo.
b) MG-34 with a Model 24 grenade and able to fire on move.
T1 allows Sappers to build Bunkers that are upgradable only for an MG-42 and Command bunker as the Tier already has Medics and able to upgrade for FHQ right away for 300MP.
Command bunker's able to build 3 more units:
1) Sniper for 300-320 MP (because he's so far away and prob. most of the players won't even know it can be build units), no other changes.
2) MG-34 HMG instead it has 3 Guys and more damage and gains the 4th guy with Vet.
3) 2 Men 100 MP Sappers with 10 Reinforcement only for repairing stuff, get 2 pistols at Vet 3 for A E S T H E T I C S.
T2 (OKW playstyle):
Can be upgraded for 150-200 MP 10-15 Fuel for 2 more engies (thus 4 in total) and "Next Gen" of LVs:
1) 250/7 (Mortar HT).
2) AT Hetzer.
The player WILL BE ABLE TO build from "Previous Gen" even after acquiring next, just combining units from them is going to be worse than going for only "Prev. Gen" or "Next Gen".
1) Stug 3 G
(both get skirts at Vet 1 and Top MG at Vet 2)
It will have 5 Vets and at 5th it will be able to trade for a Tiger 1 usual that will have default stats of that Panther with 5 Vets and also 3 more Vets, requires resources to trade for.
4) Walking Stuka that can get a Panzerwerfer strike on a location Vet 3, otherwise it's the same.
The USSR (super aggressive):
Starts off with a Commander squad of 5 men (3 Cons (Mosins) 1 Medic 1 Guard (SVTs)) and can call-in units, cannot be built.
His abilities are:
Vet 0- Call-in Conscripts.
Vet 1- Gets a 4th Conscript to the squad and is able to Call-In Assault Guards for 330MP (are like prepatch)
Vet 2- Usual Guards for 360MP.
Vet 3-CEs that are affected by the Doctrine the player choses, from an ability to place Tier out of the base sectors to have more buildable defensises and such. Builds USSR's Tiers.
If the Commander's lost during battle a totally normal CE squad comes in.
1) T0 is now building CEs only and can upgrade Tiers, and more specifically-units in them, so T1 units, T2 units and same for T3 and T4. Doctrines with Heavy tanks will require a certain Tier upgrade.
The only change is that Penals are now doctrinal and they're replaced with 5 men Shocks that get their 6th guy after Vet 2, 340MP 30 reinforce, if the player chose a Doc. with Shocks they have to upgrade for the 6th guy who will be with a flamer (requires T3).
All the other Tiers are un-touched.
My money would be on reworking Sections entirely. I absolutely hate their design.
Remove their cover nonsense. Make them a standard 5man squad in the style of 5man grens and with similar combat capabilities and no weapon slots. Either medkit without aoe or pyrotechnics with bundle grenade and flare for base arty. 300mp cost plus 29mp reinforce. No bolster or nades means earlier T1 with sappers and snipers.
That's too radical for a Mainline infantry unit, for example same Penals that are 300MP are ANOTHER TYPE OF Mainline, not the ONLY ONE Mainline, meaning you're able to go for them or Conscripts, while Brits are unable to have something like that even with a Doctrine I recon, thus this wouldn't ever be possible as is too costly.
Also "cover nonsense" is what Brits are developed to be, they historically went for more WW1 styled war and their weapontry shows that, so it has to stay.
Most of the players using lmg on obers.With some adjustment Infrared stg-44 could be viable weapon.
It will either be a separate upgrade for them for like 100 ammo that also works on Obers, or...
Be their like vet 5 or 4 or maybe even 3 change from usual ones to these.
And also Volks aren't really any elite and see them with a weapon given only to elites is kind of weird.
Was playing as Soviets and finishing off a squad of PZGrens of my enemy (RNGesus forgive me) and his Grens started coming to my T-70 from behind and shooting an Faust at point blank, but...it missed. At point BLANK!
When is this going to be fixed for fuck's sake?! I want a fair game, as CoH2 is, but this just happens and it is really frustrating and make you facepalm and leave because your ass burns down already.
Is there any way to fix this?
I'm glad you mentioned the fuel cost. Of course another key aspect of synergy with this doctrine is the muni -to-fuel drops. You don't have much else to spend muni on, so after you get the halftrack bundle you can usually get at least two of these done before you get your first M4 sherman at roughly the same timing as a fast T34.
The call-in nature of the halftrack means it comes at a much more useful timing and that you are able to delay the manpower cost of T3 until later.
There are lots of things to spend your manpower on for sure. It's why I don't go pure penals - usually 2 cons and 2 penals into sniper works best. The tradeoff to the high upfront manpower costs for the supporting units are that you don't bleed as much and you can secure map control even against superior line (blob) infantry.
What are the benefits of this playstyle?
- Force your opponent to invest in early at (for the halftrack) and indirect fire (for the dshks), reducing their direct anti-infantry ability and delaying their tech.
- Prevent your opponent from blobbing to victory by abusing sturm offizier or through sheer numbers.
- Present a very scary timing for opponents trying to secure map control with bunkers/snipers/mgs/light vehicle by charging them with a CP3 halftrack that can be outfitted to 1-shot any of these.
- Get a medium armour advantage by popping out a M4C Sherman at a fast-T34 timing. Your 2nd, 3rd and 4th tank/tank destroyer/artillery piece will also arrive faster than your opponent.
Seems good to me!
Well, yeah, if you are able to do that, and most of the players don't.
And about doctrines: it depends on what exact difference they will have from the Lend Lease doc., and if they won't have any, then yeah, that's a question.
I am not talking about the M3A1 but the M3 used by USF/UKF which is not available to Soviets in other doctrines.
Conscripts/Penal with Vickers -k is a really bad idea.
PLS no more drop able weapons, I have seen enough SVT conscripts with "for the mother land"
What about restrictions for these drops to only elite units and Cons? As Cons already have just 1 slot.
And I yet didn't see this combo, how bad is it?
I did not respond to your point, I simply corrected your facts. Using correct data/stat helps a debate move allot smoother.
Elite or not paras get 2 bazookas not 3.
The m5 is simply superior even to buffed 250.
To respond to your point, 6 men squad with 3 bazookas/3 SVT and good vet bonuses can easily become problematic especially if they come without a vehicle as suggested by some. The AI/AT potential is simply too high.
The Clown Car is M3A1, not M5, so that's what he was about, no?