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USF Doctrinal T0 units and alternatives to Riflemen.

26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AM
#1
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

So I'm thinking about units available to USF as alternatives to Riflemen the three are:

Pathfinders
Assault Engineers
Cavalry Riflemen

All are horrendously over priced, none are particularly good combat units.


Pathfinders have some useful abilities with a large sight range, ability to place beacons and cloaking ability. They are poor combat units however and cost an astounding 290 MP so I can't see them as a viable alternative to Riflemen.

Assault Engineers are also quite expensive at 280 MP, same cost as Riflemen but are pretty poor combat units as well especially at that price, they also seem to scale very poor and become less and less viable the longer the game goes on, in fact after the first 5-10 minutes they seem useless. They cost the same as Assault Grenadiers and you'd think they'd have comperable combat preformance but that they do not. Their repair and construction abilities are redundant to RETs.

Cavalry Riflemen arrive at 1 CP so I guess for that reason alone you really couldn't use them as a Riflemen replacement but more of a Riflemen supplement. They aren't a particularly good combat unit in and of themselves but they are much better than the other two afore mentioned units. They preform best when fighting inside an M3 halftrack due to their very squishy nature. Their AT satchel alone makes them a fairly good unit but they are too weak to be an effective CQB unit on their own.

So really we're still stuck with the dumb Riflemen, Riflemen, Riflemen, LT/CPT build order. I hate having more than two Riflemen because they bleed your MP dry and are terrible later in the game and take up valuable pop and MP for better infantry units like Paratroopers or Rangers.
26 Feb 2020, 05:53 AM
#2
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2383 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY

Pathfinders
Assault Engineers
Cavalry Riflemen

All are horrendously over priced, none are particularly good combat units.


Their price is specifically because of their combination of combat ability and utility

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY
They cost the same as Assault Grenadiers and you'd think they'd have comperable combat preformance but that they do not. Their repair and construction abilities are redundant to RETs.


Mines, demos, flamer upgrade all mean nothing? REs have none of those except shittier mines
26 Feb 2020, 06:31 AM
#3
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1133

How about smg in weapons rack unlock.
Usf lacks cqc and loss of ambush tactics.
26 Feb 2020, 08:20 AM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8202 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY
So I'm thinking about units available to USF as alternatives to Riflemen the three are:

None of these units are there to replace the Riflemen...
26 Feb 2020, 08:35 AM
#5
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2598

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY
I hate having more than two Riflemen because they bleed your MP dry and are terrible later in the game and take up valuable pop and MP for better infantry units like Paratroopers or Rangers.


Welcome to hating Riflemen town. Population: You
26 Feb 2020, 09:24 AM
#6
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 427

Cav rifles are probably the most versatile cqc unit there is. Good damage, smoke AND powerful snare.
26 Feb 2020, 11:04 AM
#7
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 134

Why would you replace riflemen with something else? Riflemen are really good. Especially with a M1919 LMG or double BARs..

Trying to fix something here that isn't broken?
26 Feb 2020, 11:18 AM
#8
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4297

I agree 100% give them 4 bars from the start
26 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM
#9
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1336 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY
So I'm thinking about units available to USF as alternatives to Riflemen the three are:

Pathfinders
Assault Engineers
Cavalry Riflemen

All are horrendously over priced, none are particularly good combat units.


Ayyyy, lmao..

May I tear you a new a-hole with Thompson'd Cavalry Riflemen in a custom match?
26 Feb 2020, 12:18 PM
#10
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15129 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY
All are horrendously over priced, none are particularly good combat units.

If all units are not particularly good in combat for you, there is about 378% chance that you are not particularly good at the game.
26 Feb 2020, 12:40 PM
#11
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1133

I agree 100% give them 4 bars from the start


You mad?
I think giving LT and Cap default 1 bar is ok. And have upgradable zooks.

Remember usf have very strong bleed in early game. Weapon racks and nades are Very costly to map control. At least in 2v2.
We are fighting stock rifles against mg42 or lmg grens or cqc pgren or sturms.
26 Feb 2020, 13:46 PM
#12
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2265

26 Feb 2020, 16:18 PM
#13
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1429

Banned
While Codguy's ideas are garbage as usual, I think pathfinders should get ambush bonus at vet 3.
26 Feb 2020, 17:46 PM
#14
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 339

Assault Engineer vet 1 (.9x RA) does not work in the live version, but is fixed in the preview patch. That should help them scale.

Ever notice, though, that pro players never use Rangers or Paras?
26 Feb 2020, 17:58 PM
#15
avatar of BrickTop

Posts: 88


Ever notice, though, that pro players never use Rangers or Paras?


Sometimes i see paras are used. Never seen rangers. I think because they are not used for ai and at same time like most of other infantries.

Wish there were a solution makes usf player need elite infantries. I think "simple buff" will not fix that, may cause worse.
26 Feb 2020, 18:04 PM
#16
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2598

Ever notice, though, that pro players never use Rangers or Paras?


I must have been dreaming when NOS Markov and freedom (the chinese top20 player) went Recon Support and dropped paratroopers against me. I must also have been dreaming when AshaGod said in another thread he always goes Recon Support vs Ost because the combat group is broken OP.
26 Feb 2020, 21:34 PM
#17
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 757

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY

Pathfinders have some useful abilities with a large sight range, ability to place beacons and cloaking ability. They are poor combat units however and cost an astounding 290 MP so I can't see them as a viable alternative to Riflemen.


Ok, I actually agree Pathfinders are pretty pathetic tbh (I could have sworn they had 0.9 RA once, but at 1 RA they're squishy af with very little combat value), but they offer great sight and let you reinforce your paratrooper models in the field with beacons, so when going airborne or recon support they are more of an investment into future units than anything else.

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY

Assault Engineers are also quite expensive at 280 MP, same cost as Riflemen but are pretty poor combat units as well especially at that price, they also seem to scale very poor and become less and less viable the longer the game goes on, in fact after the first 5-10 minutes they seem useless. They cost the same as Assault Grenadiers and you'd think they'd have comperable combat preformance but that they do not. Their repair and construction abilities are redundant to RETs.


Ass Engies are great and the flamethrower upgrade they get makes them a no-brainer unit on some maps. You shouldn't fill your whole army with them since they lack snares and are a CQC only unit, but having one or two isn't going to hurt and I would never say they have poor combat ability. They are about on par with Assgrens before either side has upgraded or vetted and after this change will probably be moderately better than Assgrens at vet 1.

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY

Cavalry Riflemen arrive at 1 CP so I guess for that reason alone you really couldn't use them as a Riflemen replacement but more of a Riflemen supplement. They aren't a particularly good combat unit in and of themselves but they are much better than the other two afore mentioned units. They preform best when fighting inside an M3 halftrack due to their very squishy nature. Their AT satchel alone makes them a fairly good unit but they are too weak to be an effective CQB unit on their own.


Cav rifles are a good CQC unit already and the Thompson upgrade makes them even better. The fact they arrive at CP1 definitely means they aren't a replacement unit, yeah. That's fine. You shouldn't fill your whole army up with SMGs anyway.

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY

So really we're still stuck with the dumb Riflemen, Riflemen, Riflemen, LT/CPT build order. I hate having more than two Riflemen because they bleed your MP dry and are terrible later in the game and take up valuable pop and MP for better infantry units like Paratroopers or Rangers.


Riflemen are fine. I wish Paratroopers were more approachable (probably by nerfing their upgrades or something) but Rangers are already fairly easy to work in to most builds even when you have to juggle all the officer units.

None of these units can or should replace riflemen. That's just how the game is, and it doesn't make them bad units.
26 Feb 2020, 23:21 PM
#18
avatar of Riley

Posts: 198

1. The Riflemans are OK. Their problem is vet. I still can’t understand why can’t give them an AT grenade after opening T1 or T2. And put on the first vet an improvement in combat performance. OKW has raketen in t0, or panzerfusillers against the against british universal or M3. The USF has nothing against the kubel; it can calmly drive you out of hiding.

2. Assault engineers are also good, only because of the flamethrower. Sometimes this is the only way to kill mg42 in a building. Because the USF mortar is unreliable, inaccurate, and loses the battle to the German counterpart. And if you use smoke, then mg42 does not need to leave the building, because you dont have grenades, you need to buy them for 100 man power and 15 fuel.

3. Cav rifles are good. But 90 muni for 2 tompson is a big cost. Also the problem is the doctrine, with a crappy 76mm Sherman which the USF is not needed. Which was originally for the Soviet. Much more effective is Sherman 75 mm with increased health or Sherman 105 mm.

4. Pathfinders from the airborn are good at the expense of artillery strike. I don’t know if it’s right to compare them with the light Eger infantry, but the Egers feel much stronger. But overall, I like airborn Pathfinders. But they are poor. They have no grenades, or AT or sand bags.
27 Feb 2020, 00:56 AM
#19
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2265

Usf has nothing against the kubel.
Guys this is officially a troll thread.
Gj.
27 Feb 2020, 03:56 AM
#20
avatar of Riley

Posts: 198

Usf has nothing against the kubel.
Guys this is officially a troll thread.
Gj.


There is only one troll, and it is you. Say what the USF has against the kubel, before the opening of the T1 and T2. I hope you won’t tell me to choose a mechanized doctrine with the WC51, just to play against the kubel.
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