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USF Doctrinal T0 units and alternatives to Riflemen.

27 Feb 2020, 04:30 AM
#21
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 03:56 AMRiley


There is only one troll, and it is you. Say what the USF has against the kubel, before the opening of the T1 and T2. I hope you won’t tell me to choose a mechanized doctrine with the WC51, just to play against the kubel.


You can't do anything to counter a Kubel unless you catch it by surprise. You have no snares, no AT.


27 Feb 2020, 04:32 AM
#22
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

I agree 100% give them 4 bars from the start


That would still be less OP than a T0 MG42.
27 Feb 2020, 04:38 AM
#23
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 887

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 23:21 PMRiley
1. The Riflemans are OK. Their problem is vet. I still can’t understand why can’t give them an AT grenade after opening T1 or T2. And put on the first vet an improvement in combat performance.


Rifle vet is among the strongest in the game, in terms of scaling.

Vet1: AT Rifle grenade

Vet2: -23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown

Vet3: -15% received accuracy, +30% accuracy, -50% recharge time of the all abilities, +25% Mk. II throwing distance, +25% Anti tank rifle grenade range.

As for replacing Vet1, there is a decent argument for making AT rifle grenades free with tech, but absolutely no case for replacing it with combat bonuses, when Vet 2 and 3 give what they already do.

OKW has raketen in t0, or panzerfusillers against the against british universal or M3. The USF has nothing against the kubel; it can calmly drive you out of hiding.


jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 03:56 AMRiley
There is only one troll, and it is you. Say what the USF has against the kubel, before the opening of the T1 and T2. I hope you won’t tell me to choose a mechanized doctrine with the WC51, just to play against the kubel.


The Kubel has 240 HP and 3/1.9 armor. It takes damage from everything, has very little HP, and it also does very little damage (7 dps at far, 11 at close). Compared to the UC (240hp, 7/4.1 armor, 16dps at far with vickers) or M3 (200hp, 5.4/4.2, garrisoned squad can fire out), its basically not a threat.

27 Feb 2020, 05:46 AM
#24
avatar of Riley

Posts: 199

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 04:30 AMCODGUY


You can't do anything to counter a Kubel unless you catch it by surprise. You have no snares, no AT.




Dude, always complaining about the USF, in particular, hating Jackson, says:



its basically not a threat.



https://youtu.be/1zPSA2t4MqE?t=336

Timecode
5:36 and 6:00



27 Feb 2020, 06:06 AM
#25
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 887

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 05:46 AMRiley
Dude, always complaining about the USF, in particular, hating Jackson, says:

https://youtu.be/1zPSA2t4MqE?t=336

Timecode
5:36 and 6:00


I point out things that are OP for all factions, like how "Panic Puma" shouldn't return to OST, how PF spam isn't being addressed in this patch, and even made a detailed thread about how USF needs an intermediate AT... but I guess pointing out that USF has the highest win-rate, and that it might be OP, makes me biased.

As for your video, at 5:36 it's a single rifle squad vs. a Kubel, an SPio, and Volks squad. The Rifle squad was losing either way. At 6:00 it's again a single rifle squad vs. all 3, with an RE squad joining in a bit later.

Neither of these engagements were decided by the Kubel showing up. They were lost because it was a 3v1, which is exactly how those situations should play out.

If you mean the kubel pushing squads around; every vehicle can do this. The M3, UC, WC51, etc.
27 Feb 2020, 06:43 AM
#26
avatar of Riley

Posts: 199



I point out things that are OP for all factions, like how "Panic Puma" shouldn't return to OST, how PF spam isn't being addressed in this patch, and even made a detailed thread about how USF needs an intermediate AT... but I guess pointing out that USF has the highest win-rate, and that it might be OP, makes me biased.

As for your video, at 5:36 it's a single rifle squad vs. a Kubel, an SPio, and Volks squad. The Rifle squad was losing either way. At 6:00 it's again a single rifle squad vs. all 3, with an RE squad joining in a bit later.

Neither of these engagements were decided by the Kubel showing up. They were lost because it was a 3v1, which is exactly how those situations should play out.

If you mean the kubel pushing squads around; every vehicle can do this. The M3, UC, WC51, etc.


> In the team tournament of the 2x2 Masters Cup, the USF was the worst. (alright, there was simply no luck)
> In the next 1x1 tournament, the USF shared the best result with the Soviets, with a difference of 1% (No, it's all Jackson's fault, it's OP)

No bias.

And the WC51 is doctrinal.(Apparently you forgot) And OKW has raketen to defend against it.
27 Feb 2020, 07:41 AM
#27
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 887

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 06:43 AMRiley
> In the team tournament of the 2x2 Masters Cup, the USF was the worst. (alright, there was simply no luck)
> In the next 1x1 tournament, the USF shared the best result with the Soviets, with a difference of 1% (No, it's all Jackson's fault, it's OP)

No bias.

And the WC51 is doctrinal.(Apparently you forgot) And OKW has raketen to defend against it.


The 2x2 masters cup was before the "September 2019 Balance Update" as well as a few other patches (posts #161 and later); results from it can't be used to discuss the current state of the game.

In the 1x1 tournament, it also showed that Sov was overperforming. Note that the win rates for USF/Sov were 59%/58% compared to OKW/OST 48% and 37%. A win rate of 11% to 22% higher than the other (opposing) factions is a pretty clear indication of over-performance. The M36 is likely one cause of that over-performance, not the only cause. UKF is in an awful state (but needs a full redesign to fix it).

And no, I didn't forget the WC51 was doc-locked. I was pointing out that every light vehicle pushes (medium/heavy can crush).
27 Feb 2020, 11:42 AM
#28
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 430



[Ok, I actually agree Pathfinders are pretty pathetic tbh (I could have sworn they had 0.9 RA once, but at 1 RA they're squishy af with very little combat value), but they offer great sight and let you reinforce your paratrooper models in the field with beacons, so when going airborne or recon support they are more of an investment into future units than anything else.]







Pathfinders can be pretty amazing on their own. Yeah one on one encounters can be tricky vs aggressive opponents, but they rack up vet really quick when you keep them in combat, and once you get them bars, they are real threat to anyone. I faced one guy who spammed 4 of them. They really nailed my grens from cover snd stayed really nasty till the end.

They have clear counters yes, but certainly not so weak as you imply.
27 Feb 2020, 11:55 AM
#30
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2618

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 06:43 AMRiley
And the WC51 is doctrinal.(Apparently you forgot) And OKW has raketen to defend against it.


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27 Feb 2020, 11:57 AM
#31
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1338 | Subs: 3

Fuck i messed up quoting


Just edit your post by moving the closing quote tag up.

[ /quote ]
27 Feb 2020, 14:51 PM
#32
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 377 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 05:46 AMRiley


Dude, always complaining about the USF, in particular, hating Jackson, says:



https://youtu.be/1zPSA2t4MqE?t=336

Timecode
5:36 and 6:00






OKW is so bullshit OP man. 770mp of OKW units can defeat 280mp of USF units. OKW EZ MODE!


This game is Axis-biased, that's why we need to listen to the rantings of rank 1000 USF 4v4 players instead of top 50 and top 100 players.
27 Feb 2020, 15:54 PM
#33
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2020, 04:33 AMCODGUY
So I'm thinking about units available to USF as alternatives to Riflemen the three are:

Pathfinders
Assault Engineers
Cavalry Riflemen

All are horrendously over priced, none are particularly good combat units.


Pathfinders have some useful abilities with a large sight range, ability to place beacons and cloaking ability. They are poor combat units however and cost an astounding 290 MP so I can't see them as a viable alternative to Riflemen.

Assault Engineers are also quite expensive at 280 MP, same cost as Riflemen but are pretty poor combat units as well especially at that price, they also seem to scale very poor and become less and less viable the longer the game goes on, in fact after the first 5-10 minutes they seem useless. They cost the same as Assault Grenadiers and you'd think they'd have comperable combat preformance but that they do not. Their repair and construction abilities are redundant to RETs.

Cavalry Riflemen arrive at 1 CP so I guess for that reason alone you really couldn't use them as a Riflemen replacement but more of a Riflemen supplement. They aren't a particularly good combat unit in and of themselves but they are much better than the other two afore mentioned units. They preform best when fighting inside an M3 halftrack due to their very squishy nature. Their AT satchel alone makes them a fairly good unit but they are too weak to be an effective CQB unit on their own.

So really we're still stuck with the dumb Riflemen, Riflemen, Riflemen, LT/CPT build order. I hate having more than two Riflemen because they bleed your MP dry and are terrible later in the game and take up valuable pop and MP for better infantry units like Paratroopers or Rangers.

Honestly, I agree with you man.
50% crit chance, like WTF make 100% USF don't have no snipers like if your gonna get doctrinal atleast make it 3 man.
Also ass engies should have thompsons, Like what is there division called volunteer mechanic division with their puny ass m3's they need m4a1's man.
Cav rifles, like what can I say what cavalry about them. I say they should start with 6 men and ger 3 thompsons on upgrade and have an optional 2x m1919 upgrade. Then they'll be cavalry.
27 Feb 2020, 16:00 PM
#34
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2277

Rifle men are trash. Replace them with superior Lend Lease Patriots (or by its initials L2P) with on the hip firing browning 50 cal and golden 1911 that always headshot, and of course explodes tiger tanks with a single bullet too. There is a movie about that if you don't believe me.

USFNEVEROP
27 Feb 2020, 16:03 PM
#35
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3216

Between the USF tech rework and the Riflemen buff, USF did just build two and play Assault Engineers, Cav Rifles and Pathfinders instead. You still can, that's the reason for the USF tech rework.

However, as specialised units, you need to adapt your playstyle to fit them.

Buffed Riflemen are solid generalists, so completely replacing them with Assault Engineers is a less popular strategy than it was.

The doctrinal squads aren't bad, it's just that the nondoctrinal ones are good now.
27 Feb 2020, 16:05 PM
#36
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724



I must have been dreaming when NOS Markov and freedom (the chinese top20 player) went Recon Support and dropped paratroopers against me. I must also have been dreaming when AshaGod said in another thread he always goes Recon Support vs Ost because the combat group is broken OP.

To be fair Rangers(specially thompson ones) have a chance to get shreded by lmg gren, which is bot hilarious and kinda pf a bummer.
27 Feb 2020, 21:13 PM
#37
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3946 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 03:56 AMRiley


There is only one troll, and it is you. Say what the USF has against the kubel, before the opening of the T1 and T2. I hope you won’t tell me to choose a mechanized doctrine with the WC51, just to play against the kubel.

Gunfire.the usf has gunfire agaijst the kuble because its made of paper. You know how sometimes when you move your infantry behind objects a colored shield pops up? Thats cover.put your units in the green ones and the kuble will lose.
28 Feb 2020, 04:18 AM
#38
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 413


To be fair Rangers(specially thompson ones) have a chance to get shreded by lmg gren, which is bot hilarious and kinda pf a bummer.



What... rangers with thompsons who close on LMG42 grens massacre the grens.

Unless the grens are vet 3 and full health, and the rangers are vet 0 with prior damage.
28 Feb 2020, 05:33 AM
#39
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2020, 04:18 AMSerrith



What... rangers with thompsons who close on LMG42 grens massacre the grens.

Unless the grens are vet 3 and full health, and the rangers are vet 0 with prior damage.

Well that's the point, by the time rangers show up there's usually 2 vet 2 lmg grens on the field.
28 Feb 2020, 06:15 AM
#40
avatar of Riley

Posts: 199


Gunfire.the usf has gunfire agaijst the kuble because its made of paper. You know how sometimes when you move your infantry behind objects a colored shield pops up? Thats cover.put your units in the green ones and the kuble will lose.


What a unique opportunity. gunfire! I didn’t think that axis fans would get to that. The kubel can be restored very quickly with the stormtroopers, and the riflemans will bleed again. You can’t catch the kubel. When I take a universal car, playing against OKW, they always use raketen. Why? After all, a universal car is also made of paper

Now I know what we can say to the ardent haters of Jackson. "U have gunfire, just use it and destroy because its made of paper".
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