So basicly wehrmacht have zero infantry units to take the inititive, they always have to play defensivly (which the brits still does way better). That makes them easy to exploit by decent players and thats why everyone plays OKW.
When was last time you have "took the initiative" using PGs?
When was last time you've seen any streamer do it?
I could really understand your argument, if PGs were meta unit, but they are not and were never in the past after beta. They always were just an optional squad and more people opted to skip them all together or go straight for shrecks.
How many ost players actually use PGs as AI squad? 1%? 2?
If you are arguing existence of the tool - sure, its better to have the option then not, just in case.
If you are arguing usefulness of/need for the tool - meta was always exclusively about gren spam + MG/mortar/sniper and not at any single time over last 5 years PGs were ever meta AI choice, so from meta point of view, AI PGs were never needed and were just a vanity/variety option.
If an army uses just commander callin units that is a sign the army does not have the tools it needs to function.
What osttruppen offer, outside of resistance to sniper strats that base army lacks and needs?
Its not faust
Its not long range dps
Its not durability(grens are tougher in small arms firefights)
Its most certasinly not CQC DPS
So what do osttruppen bring to the table that ostheer so heavily lacks?
In case of mobile defense, panic puma is not something ost needs, its something that makes countering shock lights trivial, shreck PGs and teller mines were always capable of that.
Ost was never in soviet state of absolutely needing a commander to perform at any decent level, it was always about luxury choices. |
Yes because they have the Guards PTRS (high acc vs inf) and they were brits' only snare source. You barely see them being used however since Sappers got AT nade, even tho they are still a decent unit cuz they have the Guards PTRS rifle as mentioned
And new pfussies have tellers, right out of the gate snare(plugging the only OKWs disadvantage in early game) and are cheap and spammable.
So its not like AT rifle pfussies wouldn't bring another unique tool that base army lacks, just like in brit case. |
This upgrade is basically Conscript version of Volk STGs. It would make Cons equal to Volks, the thing is - why would you do this instead of going Penals and saving munitions for DShK and Paratroopers?
In idea/assumption, sure.
In stats, not even close.
Volk STGs, stat-wise provide bonus similar to single BAR at all but furthest ranges, so it is meaningful upgrade with noticable DPS increase, ~11,6 at close range and only 0.4 DPS at long range, but its not like volks lack long range DPS in the first place, especially compared to cons.
Thing is, if these SVTs goal was to make cons viable mainline, it failed miserably at it and, as you've said, you're better off going straight into penals and dropping SVTs for CEs when you have some spare ammo.
Again, if the stats of these SVTs were to stay as they are, they can not cost more then 30 muni as these 3 SVTs provide overall LOWER dps increase then singular, 45 mun DP-28. |
Yeah and unlike medic or resource crates, its not a medic or resource crate. It's a new ability that barely works, can you cut your usual attitude? I asked a question, I didn't demand any changes
Its a dropped weapon with a model of a crate, because obviously there is no pickable model for non droppable weapon... mechanics aren't dark magic here.
BARs are more expensive and can be dropped. Echelons die easily so I rarely equip weapon rack items on them. Meanwhile this upgrade is dirt cheap (especially in team games) and soviets spend less muni than US by a lot.
You for real here?
Dual zook RETs are as meta choice as it can get.
LMGs are very different from semi-autos, which are very different from smgs. I don't see why someone would NEVER do this.
Perhaps you should check the stats of base weapons of these squads, how and where they perform best in combat and compare SVTs with stock options they already have you'd see the reason, or multiple... |
About to blow your mind but guess what. You can have more than one soviet on the same team. The point of my question was that will your teammates be allowed to touch them. And if so, enemies as well?
Also I'm pretty sure everyone's engineers besides maybe OKW would benefit from the upgrade.
Its a CRATE, everyone who comes close to it can pick it up, just as any other medic or resource crate.
And no, not everyones, RETs can have superior BARs and REs do not want any weapon and if they do, they have LMG access. |
Conscripts with the SVTs seem pretty damn strong from the one game I played with some friends. I'm a bit hazy as to how exactly they work (since my teammate was the one using them) but even just conceptually a cons squad with SVTs is miles more cost efficient than a penal squad and has better utility.
Sure, with 6 of them.
Not with 3.
Again, they add less then HALF DPS of a BAR at close range and 3/5 of a BAR DPS at long range.
Of a single bar on conscript squad.
~5,5 DPS at CQC and 3 DPS at long range, making it hands down absolutely WORST weapon upgrade in the whole game, beating THE cheapest and THE worst, single DP-28.
Oh, and there is very high probability that I am using outdated DPS spreadsheet that does NOT included modern, slightly buffed con DPS, which means SVT improvement is even LOWER then I've said(on to look for up to date one now)
They do help cons, but hardly make a difference, especially against literally all opposing weapon upgrades.
That temporary buff healing crate provides makes for LARGER performance increase then SVT drop.
Idea is great, I love SVTs, but with current DPS increase they are worth 25-30 muni at absolute best.
edit: found the up-to date con DPS.
SVT improve con DPS by ~4.7 DPS at close range and ~2.2 DPS at long range.
And that's for the SQUAD of cons, not for 1 entity.
It is a meme upgrade as much as it gets. |
Give them Panzerbuchse instead and you will NEVER see it being used. You would have to be trolling or crazy to go Panzerbüchse instead of G43 package.
Well, brits had access to PIATs on engies and still BOYS AT rifle section was used. |
The new commander giving SVTs is not checked at all, therefore breaks some limits and since the patch is driven by community votes it does not mean its being revised into the limits within the faction.
*ekhm*
The only squads that don't have access to better small arms are conscripts and combat engineers.
Tommie lee enfields are much stronger and so are Rifles Garands.
There is no non soviet faction that would even remotely benefit from SVT drop in a cost efficient way over their own STOCK weapon upgrades.
The only UNITS where SVTs are NOT a direct NERF of the unit in context of above are
-combat engineers
-conscripts
And out of these two, only CEs are getting a MEANINGFUL performance increase as they carry wooden sticks that make sound instead of actual guns and that would, again, be useful ONLY if flamer didn't existed.
In fact, the ONLY cost efficient and effective use of current SVT drop is to give it to SWEEPER CEs, so they are actually capable of getting vet.
For all non soviet infantry, SVT drop LOWERS squads DPS, unless its USF RETs, who, as I have already mentioned, have STOCK access to BETTER weapon in form of BAR. |
Is it intended that medical crate drop from reinforce point can be dropped literally anywhere on the map?
Also, its the ost medical crate paradrop, which means it buffs rec acc and acc by ~15% per crate, stacking 3 times.
And lastly, what is the point of SVT drop?
I mean, outside of spamming SVT CEs, what's the point of even having the ability at all?
For conscripts, in close range, it adds ~5,5 DPS and at long range it adds ~3 DPS.
Cost to effectiveness, these values are meme worthy and pretty outrageously low, especially for 45 muni, which is a cost of actual weapon upgrades that do add meaningful DPS at all ranges and on the move(gren/PG G43s).
For that kind of low increase, I don't see the reason to use it at all and just pray for weapon drop from opponent for cons.
Is there any plan on how the SVT drop will interact with teammates?
Which team mates?
The only squads that don't have access to better small arms are conscripts and combat engineers.
Tommie lee enfields are much stronger and so are Rifles Garands. |
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Regarding soviet airborne, is it intended that medical crate drop from reinforce point can be dropped literally anywhere on the map?
Also, its the ost medical crate paradrop, which means it buffs rec acc and acc by ~15% per crate, stacking 3 times.
And lastly, what is the point of SVT drop?
I mean, outside of spamming SVT CEs, what's the point of even having the ability at all?
For conscripts, in close range, it adds ~5,5 DPS and at long range it adds ~3 DPS.
Cost to effectiveness, these values are meme worthy and pretty outrageously low, especially for 45 muni, which is a cost of actual weapon upgrades that do add meaningful DPS at all ranges and on the move(gren/PG G43s).
For that kind of low increase, I don't see the reason to use it at all and just pray for weapon drop from opponent for cons. |
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