Profile of Hannibal

Show Spoiler

Took me quite a few reads to actually get what you're doing to test the length of the vehicle. I had to laugh a bit to be honest, it looks like the poor man's equivalent to analyse the velocity by analyzing frames in a video. At the same time it is super creative.

Anyway, the way I thought about this initially was closer to your second suggestion. Basically count how many shots have missed and how many hit with a modified unit (0 accuracy, 0 horizontal scatter, no impact etc). Based on the scatter angle and the ratio of hit shots, you should be able to estimate the length. Are you really sure you need so many repetitions? By gut feeling I would have assumed that probably 100 would already be at least okay, although I have not tried to estimate this with a calculation.

However, I had a second idea:
We could take a bunch of standardized vehicles (0 accuracy etc as above...) that just differ in their scatter angle. Each will then shoot at a target at fixed distance. If the scatter angle is too small, all shots will hit. If it is too large, there will be misses. At range 40, each 1° increment in the scatter stat would correspond to 0,35m in vehicle width. So depending on how the angle increments are set up, it would probably be possible to nail the width down by 0,2-0,3 meters.

On the other hand, I think your second method is probably more straight forward. I'd just take less shots, should be good enough. Especially if you can cross check with similarly sized units. If the test gives you similar results for the P4 and T34, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

As to the ROF being a bit off for some units, I used an old formula to calculate the average time between shots that might be somewhat inaccurate, especially in light of what you dug up recently in your ROF thread. I don't think the deviation is too great (maybe a frame more or less here and there), but I'll probably try to update this in a future release...

Or are you specifically talking about the delays in the 'Head-to-head' tab? These are randomized between the theoretical min and max values on purpose to give the sim a more realistic 'feel'.

Yes, I was mostly asking about the head-to-head tab. If you'd have taken the average reload time, it could make the difference between consistently shooting 0,1 seconds earlier than the opponent which would lead to a clear victory. The randomization doesn't solve this, but at least will give some more realistic picture of the real variance.

This is very cool stuff! Will be more helpful since people will rather user a table calculation program rather than Python where I cobble my stuff together. I'll have to have a look soon when I find the time!


Since I assume you referred to this calculator in the "Ostheer accuracy" thread, I have a question:
How did you get the 24% scatter hit chance in the PaK vs T70 match up? Don't you need some value for the vehicle size in that one, or at least the width of the T70? Since we don't have that, what did you take as a substitute for estimation?


EDIT:
The only thing I noticed at the moment is that some ROF times are a bit off? Units like the Panther for example fire a bit faster than they are in game.

Although I do not disagree you numbers might be a bit high given the smaller target size even if one add collision hits.

Mediums get hit usually by half to two thirds of the scatter shots frontally.
If we assume the T70 gets only hit by a third of all scatter shots, this gives us a hit chance of ~81% at max range and ~85% at range 50, being higher at every point closer to that. The one third scatter hits is obviously an assumption, but I think the 85% hit chance is overall fairly realistic.

If only there was an ability that would make LVs almost immobile. Or some type of buildable to kill them... Should really be a thing in CoH3.

at maps such as Baku pack howie can actually deal solid damage from a very safe distance. But in damage from the same range 120mm is decently better (checked it with Scatter this!).
Howie is also easier to decrew because it needs 1 guy less to kill (4 guys vs 5 guys) and the squad seem to be more clumped on pack howie. I kind of agree with Gachi that it is way easy to get away with stupid stuff with 120mm vs pack howie. But if you do decrew and capture it, it makes it easier to steal as well (which is very rare, because it is that hard to be decrewed)

Yeah, I had MMX's calculations in mind (the same thread that Vipper posted) but forgot that this data is outdated, at least for the Howie (and 120mm?).
I also agree that the 120mm is more survivable by a fair bit. And although autofire is still important, balance team put more value on its barrage, on which it has 20 more range.

Performance is not the point, its merely a reference point. We might aswell bring all mortars and look at them in this context but its rather pointless because closest units to 120mm are Paks\IGs.

Point is being that 120mm mortar surviability is blantly unjutified by anything aside from it being a commander unit, sure its more expensive then regural mortars by so are the closest units, sure it take more pop-cap but so do closest units awell. Sure 120mm might be marginally more expensive and take few additional pop-cap or be marginally weaker in certain situations, but its blantly a mile away when it comes to staying power and being countered.

Even if we forget about other units completly, even in a vacuum, I still cant find a single reason why 120mm actually needs its surviability or what its compensated for, thats the point.

I partially agree.
However, I would not call 1-2 pop more "marginally", at least not when you're below 10 population. The difference between 9 POP (120mm) and 8 POP (Howie) is a 12.5% increase. For every more typical resource, this is quite a lot and we have seen lots of changes on smaller scales. It won't break your strategy, just like a cost change of 20-30 MP would not break the strategy. Yet, paying 360 MP (=320*1,125) would be considered overpriced for the unit.
As I said above, I fully agree that the 120mm is very sturdy. Too sturdy? That's what I would doubt. The 120mm is in usually at least 2 very popular commanders. One of them is Guard Motor, which has been the Soviet favourite for years now. I have only irregularly seen the 120mm being spammed though. This likely also has to do with MP constraints due to Shocks and Guards or other causes of not fitting timings, but it might also hint that the 120mm is not as a strong choice as people are making it out to be.