No, heavy TD do not "need to perform well against everything" and they are not forced to, that is choice not necessity.
Giving deflection damage to all vehicles would be a very bad change and so would giving them 100% chance to hit.
I respect this as your opinion, but there is not much reasoning behind it. It's not about penetration as you claimed. Promoting spamming is only the case if the deflection damage is too high, but that is a balance issue and not a general design issue. PTRS also do deflection damage, but no one spams them because there are serious trade offs to that.
Overall most of this is inherent to the general way penetration functions in this game. I hope CoH3 sees a rework for the system. There should be a benefit to overpenetration by increasing damage or triggering criticals, similar to the wargame series and also similar to what you suggested if I understood you correctly. |
Main difference here is that most high penetration are specialized and thus not so good vs soft targets. Now what reason would there be to even build specialized units if 2 mediums tanks could do perform equally good vs heavily armored vehicles and bring AI on top of that?
As for the "no brainer" TD that was a design decision taken by the MOD team and a bad one in my opinion. There are other solutions.
The first part is not true. Many heavy tanks have high penetration, yet are generalist tanks and petform well vs infantry.
I'd personally like more deflection damage in the game.
I see the same issue as GachiGasm: The current system promotes high pen units because of reliability and holds down lower tier units because of that. People tend to favor reliability. No one wants to lose a game because you get bad RNG once in the game which breaks your army after having played 30 min. At the same time heavy TDs need to perform well against everything, which makes them quite expensive both cost and pop wise.
If heavy TDs are not forced anymore to perform well against cheaper units, they could get a better design. |
Amazing video...
What a cheated free unit, I think this is the best Heavy tank, don't need commader to deploy
That's fair !!
And during this time my pershing is dreaming to have same stats...
It's no secret that the USF ATG has shitty pen, yet you use it frontally against the heaviest vehicle in the game. Not sure what you expected, but getting 8/9 bounces in this scenario is not even really rare.
Unless you want to complain about USF's AT design in general.
Slightly off topic: it just came to my mind that the high target size in this regard might come to the KTs advantage. ATGs have 100% natural hit chance, which in the games logic means you will always score frontal shots unless you are more than 90° behind the tank. More imprecise shots might scatter and hit the huge model in the rear |
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It is either latency correction and/or bugged collision. I always had the feeling some maps have it worse than others. Poltawa in my eyes was quite (in)famous for this |
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Might be the same issue as not firing the smoke barrage.
If that's the case, this comes from issuing orders at specific points in the barrage, making the unit bug out. I can't recall what it was anymore, I think it had to do with ordering to stop the barrage and reface the mortar or something. |
Comet MG deal 5dmg, Panther MG deal 4dmg.
Which means Comet MGs do 10 total, Panther do 12.
This calculation does not make any sense at all. |
Though UKF sniper needs something more going for it, and USF needs M20 unlocked after any/or officer to hunt down snipers
I think that's actually the most important point.
The vehicle crit ability is nice, but apart from this it is a downgrade.
Iirc, it fires way slower and comes later. And the possibility to engage vehicles is utter trash. Either you don't want to fight vehicles anyway because they are a counter to the sniper (even more so with the recent movement nerf), or you don't want to because the damage does nothing significant. What is 40 damage supposed to achieve? It does not synergize with the ATG, LVs are not threatened by 40 damage either, I'd need to shots against mediums to follow up with a low-availability snare and it does not even synergize with a PIAT if those things hit once in a lifetime. Really? PIAT + sniper gives me 140 damage, which does not cross any significant threshold. |
Yes. My point in this topic is at #4 with they too hard to kill. It shouldn't going to cost and dps calculation.
I'm wrong as calculate DPS per squad instead of per weaponw with outdated data.
However if calculate dps per squad a DPS lose is still in same pattern.
Thank for your stats chart. May I borrow them to use for reference next time?
I agree that sniper's integration into the game is lacking in terms of other counters than "counter sniping", especially for the DLC factions.
The DPS loss is not in the same pattern. When both squads lose 1 model their DPS evens out, when they lose two models Conscripts have higher DPS. This is contrary to what you have posted and a direct result from higher squad sizes. But again, DPS is not everything, not even in regards to fighting capability. But I actually don't want to focus on the special case of Cons vs Grens, since it is only one of multiple match ups, which is also more in line with your original post.
Of course you can use the code, that's why I published it. |
1. Maybe But Player still use this site for ref(especially steam).
2. Value from "grenadier_squad_mp: grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp" I assume at close range dps.
3. How It is wrong? vipper was calculate losing dps by percent then I represent it as number.
4. yes agree so as reinforce cost it not everythings.
1. Because it was available for a long time, but there is no information on how the DPS is calculated. I tested it and these graphs range from fairly accurate to very inaccurate, depending on weapon and range.
2+3: The values are per weapon, not per squad. Which should be fairly obvious if you look at the values. You just took them blindly without questioning any of it. When you saw 4 DPS for a whole Conscript squad at close range you should have seen that something is off. This turns your whole calculation about DPS after model loss upside down.
4. As you said yourself, a sniper is there to kill singular models. It's intention is bleed and strategic damage, which is why at least in the Conscript vs Ostheer setup, an Ostheer sniper is not as effective as e.g. against Penals or USF/UKF in general. It diminishes fighting power. A 2 men Gren squad needs to retreat, a 4 men Conscript doesn't. |
I reply to that comment. Not a Topic.
You're lying with statistics.
Let considering how much DPS that you mean 100% in its number.
According to this
https://coh2.serealia.ca/#97
Conscript max dps is 4.
4/6 = 0.67 per unit.
grenadier max dps is 6.
6/4 = 1.5 per unit.
assuming sniper dropped both 1 man.
conscript dps = 0.67*5 = 3.35
grenadier dps = 1.5*3 = 4.5
assuming sniper dropped both 2 man.
conscript dps = 0.67*4 = 2.68
grenadier dps = 1.5*2 = 3.0
even gren has halfzize of squad they still have higher dps.
Infantry unit was balanced by a lot of stats not just squad size.
this is not include Target size,pop cap, weapon upgrade. tech order. etc...
this is why I lazy to explain these things to you.
1. This site is often wrong and 90% at least inaccurate
2. I don't know where you got the data from, surely not even from this site, because it does not line up. It's wrong though.
3. Because of 2, your calculations and conclusions are wrong as well.
4. DPS is not everything. Breaking it down to DPS only is pretty nonsense and only works if the HP are comparable.
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