These units should be slightly more susceptible to mediums. They're late game tanks, so you can expect that others tanks should be on the field as counters.
But mediums don't counter them well, forcing you into TDs. Allies are forced into TDs anyway, so it is kind of a self-solving problem. But once you lose your only TD and can't re-buy it soon, you are screwed. Especially against the Brummbar, since not even the ATG works reliably here to get that one shot+snare in, USF probably having the most troubles here.
And while it is a minor issue, it also doesn't help that a double snare on the Brummbar usually doesn't work as a last resort to buy yourself time.
I kinda agree with this. Tanks like the 105 Dozer and Brummbär should be a greater threat to AT guns than vice versa. If anything you could argue that they could become a bit more susceptible to tanks as those should be their natural counters. Right now at least the Brum can get out of harms way quite quickly if things go south and hunting it down is rather difficult. I think a slight acceleration nerf, as was proposed in another thread a while ago could go a long way to make overextending with these tanks more punishing. Other than that I'd say their durability is fine.
Basically this.
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USF?
USF does not have it as bad. Teching on double officers is viable. If I go Captain, I usually don't go for the Lieutenant later on and just neglect the MG which I find a nice bonus, but not as necessary for USF gameplay in team games. I personally Captain the better tech in team games with the ATG and Pak Howitzer, as well as a good AA HT as a suppression platform to make up for not having the MG.
And even if you want to have the full support line up: At some point from the mid game onwards, you'll need to replace a lost Riflemen squad. You can buy the missing officer instead, pay a tiny bit more overall than if you'd just buy another Rifle, but get access to the MG that you wanted. The back tech in this situation has a very low extra cost.
As Soviets, back teching to T2 costs you almost as much, but you don't get any squad from it. You're just down a full squad if you do that. |
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At this point we're just waiting for the day until MMX will program the rest of CoH2 into an Excel sheet and we finally don't need steam or the Relic servers anymore.
Probably comes with the added bonus of higher stability because Excel does not bugsplat. |
what is this supposed to mean?
I think he means that Soviets are the only faction that lack essential units if they go T1. Mostly because of the ATG. No other faction has that issue, since back teching is usually not viable until the mid game.
Which is basically what Kurobane pointed towards. |
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The bofors really suffers from UKF's general design.
It comes early, so counters are not as numerous, therefore it can't have enough range to really lock down an area and must stay vulnerable to the one PaK on the field.
At the same time, UKF has no real mortar unless you want to spam emplacements, forcing a defensive faction into the offensive if your Bofors gets barraged.
Similarly, there is no late game arty, so no chance defending it in the late game from ATGs.
Also, the veterancy is very odd. Vet3 gives you 50% more HP. This is huge, but you'll never get that far since the only way to vet is if your opponent is a huge idiot and feeds his men into it.
Maybe the Bofors should work more like a heavy ATG with a rotating gun that requires setup. Defenseless from the sides, but useful to the front.
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I did not claim that AT satchel is overpowered but I pointed out that there are difference with other snares.
Then I suggest you phrase it more clearly since you replied by giving a reason to someone stating that no changes are needed since the satchel is no OP.
If you simply want to point out differences between different snares: This is no the topic of this discussion. |
Yeah, now that you say it the length measurement method surely is kind of the poor man's solution to frame-counting... albeit it did at least prove that the size of the in-game model seems to be roughly equivalent to that of the hitbox.
I've been thinking about your suggestion to reduce the number of rounds used for probing the dimensions of the hitbox, and you're definitely right that 5000 is way over the top. In theory, 100 sampling shots should give a standard deviation of +/- 5% in the worst case (50/50 chance of hitting) - not too bad for a rough estimate for sure. Upping the number to 500 would cut the standard deviation about in half and shouldn't be too taxing time-wise either, so maybe that's a good compromise between accuracy and effort. I'll try to set up some measurements later today and see how reproducible the results are and how well they line up with the visual estimates.
However, if Vipper is right and the hitboxes can be measured via the map editor, this would of course be even better!
Map editor would be great, although these would probably also only be estimates. What good is it seeing the hit box when you can't really reference it that well? Although maybe a speed mod or something would help in that regard.
Anyway, I played around with the numbers. Running 500 shots should give you a 95% chance of having less than 15% error for smaller tanks (assuming those are only ~2m wide which would be in line with your 24% hit chance of a PaK40 on a T70 that you estimated), ~7% for mediums (assuming ~5m width) and about 4% for larger vehicles (assumed ~7 meters).
1000 shots improve these numbers to 11%, 5%, 3% for small/medium/large vehicles.
5000 shots improve to 5%, 2%, 1%.
But again, this means that in 95% of the measurements, you will have LESS error than this and be closer to the actual value. |
and there you have it even more differences
That's not the point. The AT satchel is not overpowered. If a Penal runs close, just back away to be safe, or take the risk. |
yes, in that case the t70 drives to the other side of the map, knowing there are no threats for it whatsoever and can chase off harrassers
meanwhile your pak gets swarmed by 4 cons because now the sov player knows
when it gets repositioned, he drives the t70 back in. voila wehr gets pushed off
the alpha strike of the pak should have 95% chance to hit
I mean, I can also make up a story about the MG42 suppressing the Con squads, while the Grens faust the T70 with the PaK finishing it off. Voila easy win.
Does it prove anything? No, no it doesn't.
A normal Ostheer build are 1 MG, 3-4 Grens, a pio and usually a 222 when the T70 arrives. The Soviets have 4 Conscripts, 1-2 pios and then finally the T70. Maybe they were forced into Guards or an ATG themselves to counter the 222.
If your PaK gets swarmed by 4 Conscripts, you left it undefended. That's all. As I've shown you, your PaK hits most of the time, realistically probably 3 out of 4 shots unless you set it up with a tractor or something in the line of fire. Most of the time, you hit the T70 and it has to retreat and repair. If you lose the game because of a single miss with all of main line squads having 20 range snares available, that's on you.
Which is further proven by Ostheer having decent win rates across all modes, being down in 3v3 and up in 4v4. |
sov arent on the backfoot because everywheere are cons behind sandbags. 222 comes at the same time as t70. before that you need a Pak which leads to 320 mp down the drain which cant fight inf and is only good for chasing off lv. and then that thing even misses....
Either you have quite bad 222, or god tier T70 timing. But no, Conscript sandbags usually not being spammed, unless the Soviet player does not get enough pressure. And if so, your PaK will come in even more handy and be able to take those out.
What's your solution then? PaK40 should hit every shot? How is the T70 buffed then if it can't really perform anymore as it has to? The Soviet player just spent 260 MP and 70 FU to finally pull slightly ahead in the AI game until mediums roll out.
I've just shown you that the PaK hits fairly reliably and is ALWAYS a threat for a vehicle that can take only three shots. Every T70 will retreat if it sees a set up PaK facing it, regardless of an occasional miss or not. |
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