yes, in that case the t70 drives to the other side of the map, knowing there are no threats for it whatsoever and can chase off harrassers
meanwhile your pak gets swarmed by 4 cons because now the sov player knows
when it gets repositioned, he drives the t70 back in. voila wehr gets pushed off
the alpha strike of the pak should have 95% chance to hit
I mean, I can also make up a story about the MG42 suppressing the Con squads, while the Grens faust the T70 with the PaK finishing it off. Voila easy win.
Does it prove anything? No, no it doesn't.
A normal Ostheer build are 1 MG, 3-4 Grens, a pio and usually a 222 when the T70 arrives. The Soviets have 4 Conscripts, 1-2 pios and then finally the T70. Maybe they were forced into Guards or an ATG themselves to counter the 222.
If your PaK gets swarmed by 4 Conscripts, you left it undefended. That's all. As I've shown you, your PaK hits most of the time, realistically probably 3 out of 4 shots unless you set it up with a tractor or something in the line of fire. Most of the time, you hit the T70 and it has to retreat and repair. If you lose the game because of a single miss with all of main line squads having 20 range snares available, that's on you.
Which is further proven by Ostheer having decent win rates across all modes, being down in 3v3 and up in 4v4.
sov arent on the backfoot because everywheere are cons behind sandbags. 222 comes at the same time as t70. before that you need a Pak which leads to 320 mp down the drain which cant fight inf and is only good for chasing off lv. and then that thing even misses....
Either you have quite bad 222, or god tier T70 timing. But no, Conscript sandbags usually not being spammed, unless the Soviet player does not get enough pressure. And if so, your PaK will come in even more handy and be able to take those out.
What's your solution then? PaK40 should hit every shot? How is the T70 buffed then if it can't really perform anymore as it has to? The Soviet player just spent 260 MP and 70 FU to finally pull slightly ahead in the AI game until mediums roll out.
I've just shown you that the PaK hits fairly reliably and is ALWAYS a threat for a vehicle that can take only three shots. Every T70 will retreat if it sees a set up PaK facing it, regardless of an occasional miss or not.
Took me quite a few reads to actually get what you're doing to test the length of the vehicle. I had to laugh a bit to be honest, it looks like the poor man's equivalent to analyse the velocity by analyzing frames in a video. At the same time it is super creative.
Anyway, the way I thought about this initially was closer to your second suggestion. Basically count how many shots have missed and how many hit with a modified unit (0 accuracy, 0 horizontal scatter, no impact etc). Based on the scatter angle and the ratio of hit shots, you should be able to estimate the length. Are you really sure you need so many repetitions? By gut feeling I would have assumed that probably 100 would already be at least okay, although I have not tried to estimate this with a calculation.
However, I had a second idea:
We could take a bunch of standardized vehicles (0 accuracy etc as above...) that just differ in their scatter angle. Each will then shoot at a target at fixed distance. If the scatter angle is too small, all shots will hit. If it is too large, there will be misses. At range 40, each 1° increment in the scatter stat would correspond to 0,35m in vehicle width. So depending on how the angle increments are set up, it would probably be possible to nail the width down by 0,2-0,3 meters.
On the other hand, I think your second method is probably more straight forward. I'd just take less shots, should be good enough. Especially if you can cross check with similarly sized units. If the test gives you similar results for the P4 and T34, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
As to the ROF being a bit off for some units, I used an old formula to calculate the average time between shots that might be somewhat inaccurate, especially in light of what you dug up recently in your ROF thread. I don't think the deviation is too great (maybe a frame more or less here and there), but I'll probably try to update this in a future release...
Or are you specifically talking about the delays in the 'Head-to-head' tab? These are randomized between the theoretical min and max values on purpose to give the sim a more realistic 'feel'.
Yes, I was mostly asking about the head-to-head tab. If you'd have taken the average reload time, it could make the difference between consistently shooting 0,1 seconds earlier than the opponent which would lead to a clear victory. The randomization doesn't solve this, but at least will give some more realistic picture of the real variance.
what does this have to do with topic? i just pointed out that misses in a gamephase which is utterly crucial for wehr are frustrating and should be tweaked
But that's the point you've been failing to make a case for.
Why is this phase more crucial for OST than say for Soviets? Due to infantry upgrades and the 222/251, Soviets are on the back foot from the ~4 minute mark until the T70 arrives. What sense does it make that they are denied their power spike?
You want Ostheer to transition from a strong 222 phase into an even Allied LV phase, into a strong medium phase again. Where's the weak phase of Ostheer?
This is very cool stuff! Will be more helpful since people will rather user a table calculation program rather than Python where I cobble my stuff together. I'll have to have a look soon when I find the time!
Since I assume you referred to this calculator in the "Ostheer accuracy" thread, I have a question:
How did you get the 24% scatter hit chance in the PaK vs T70 match up? Don't you need some value for the vehicle size in that one, or at least the width of the T70? Since we don't have that, what did you take as a substitute for estimation?
EDIT:
The only thing I noticed at the moment is that some ROF times are a bit off? Units like the Panther for example fire a bit faster than they are in game.
Although I do not disagree you numbers might be a bit high given the smaller target size even if one add collision hits.
Mediums get hit usually by half to two thirds of the scatter shots frontally.
If we assume the T70 gets only hit by a third of all scatter shots, this gives us a hit chance of ~81% at max range and ~85% at range 50, being higher at every point closer to that. The one third scatter hits is obviously an assumption, but I think the 85% hit chance is overall fairly realistic.
I can't watch at the moment, but
1. it would be helpful to point to certain time stamps if you really want people to watch it.
2. There is no inherent inaccuracy of either of these units. Also not a bug that lowers it. They are fully in line within their faction and even with other factions. If you got a lot of misses, it was probably moving your tank and/or bad RNG. I highly doubt that after years of playing the game, we've just found a severe issue with one of the core stats of two of the most frequently used units.
This is a "grass is greener on the other side" issue. You even stated that T70 is causing issues. Obviously it does, because that's what it was designed to do and priced for. Your 222 and upgraded infantry were dominating before, if you're able to easily shut down the only unit that has carried Soviet early-mid game for years now because Soviets do not have any main line upgrades at that point, that's the definition of wanting an OP faction. If your PaK misses, that's maybe a lost battle, not a lost game. If your PaK hits (let's be real it hits >85% of the time on an open field), that's maybe a won battle because Soviet infantry at this time won't stand up to yours.