Changing it's role completely to a howitzer could be interesting, but let's be realistic: 1. It's difficult to not make it redundant with the Katjusha. 2. The game is waaaaay too old for that. We should aim for simple, yet effective solutions.
Soviet T3 actually has a good unit mix. AA/AI-support unit. AI specialist light tank, AT specialist light tank. The SU76 is not an unreliable unit, but there are cheaper ways for Soviets to get the same performance by back-teching and buying a ZiS. So the problem is, as correctly stated previously, the cost/performance ratio.
So we have two options:
1. Make SU76 cheaper -> In my opinion a bad idea due to how many problems this could lead to regarding spammability and suicidal dives by using it's long range.
2. Make SU76 stronger -> In my opinion the way to go.
The earlier SU76 had mostly reliable hit/pen chance against a P4, 160 damage and 60 range plus a free barrage. The new version got accuracy nerfed and damage nerfed to 120 damage, which means 6 shots to kill a medium, plus an expensive barrage.
Upping the damage back to 160 could lead to random P4 RNG kills in a the 2v1 situations that the Axis player will likely face. So I'm not sure if this reversal would be so great or not. Lowering accuracy could counter that but makes the unit frustrating to use and fight against for both players.
As a first step to test how to get SU76 back into the meta, I suggest to give it a timed ability (heat shells) that increases damage to 160 and maybe penetration as well for ~30 mun. Also make the barrage ~20 mun.
In my eyes, SU76 could be mediocre unit for standard use that can be boosted to a strong TD or artillery piece if you pay muni in the correct moments. Due to the munition sink that a SU76 will be, it won't be spammable, but might fit into more builds since it can be very useful and be "a poor man's SU85" as originally intended. Also we would preserve the Soviet theme of utility with multi-purpose units.
This could come along with minor cost adjustments. If it's enough, we keep the unit like that. If not, we can discuss if we make stat buffs permanent. |
The SU76 was OP in previous builds since it had decent AT capacity and a free AI barrage.
Both things got nerfed, now it's AT is only okay for tanks up to mediums and the AI is very situational and absolutely not a reason to get the SU76.
Now the SU76 is just not worth the price anymore. The only situation where I could imagine building it is if I play a T1 Soviet build, got blocked out of the fuel points and did not back tech in time when a P4 or Ostwind show up. Also I need to have no manpower to afford a back-tech and ZiS (about 500 MP in total)
If I need very decent AT, a ZiS + snare threat perform better. The barrage costs 35 mun and there's the same ability on the ZiS. Also back-teching costs only 20 fuel and not 75, so I delay a real tank only by a minute and not by 3-4.
SU76 should perform similar to the ZiS in my opinion. Or make the barrage way cheaper (~15 mun) with a bit longer setup time to make it worse against moving infantry, so that there is a real benefit from spending so much fuel. Now all you get is a more mobile, but way worse ZiS that also punishes you by delaying a tank. |
Actually not so many unit need access to it.
The ability should definitely be replaced from Stug -E.
It could also be replaced Puma or even the Elefant.
We surely can discuss about this, but at the moment I don't think that any version of TWP is overperforming, so for start a simple name change would be nice.
Suggestions:
- turret lock = target turret ring
- blind = target vision slits (would explain that the driver can't drive due to panic and missing orders from the tank commander and gunner can't see the targets)
- stun = target weak point (there's no real logic for that ability though other than the crew panicking)
(what other versions are there? can't remember)
Changing/removing abilities might cause other issues with the unit that uses the ability and could be a project for the long run.
And to get to your points: What do you want to replace it with? Or do you mean remove?
I do like a TWP ability on the Puma (funnily enough I can't recall if the Puma has a stun, blind or something different). It enables the Puma to be useful as a support unit even after the medium tank phase has begun, just like the Stuart.
StuG could do with a blind in my eyes (not sure what it has at the moment), since the PaK already has the stun. Elefant's TWP could also be removed in my eyes. |
Since this topic has popped up multiple times across different threads in zhe last weeks/months, and players mostly agreed:
Would it be possible for the balance team to either streamline or at least rename all the different versions of TWP?
Right now, there are so many versions with the same name, some very useful (like the stun shot of the PaK I belive) some less useful (StuGs turret lock). Therr are so many that it indeed hurts the ability since you need to memorize all the different TWPs and then recall under stress if the unit you have has the TWP that you need right now. I barely see people use the ability, and I assume that's because nobody knows what it does anymore. Hell, I play CoH regularly and don't have much of an idea. Now if players that play less often don't even know that there are so many versions, they might just think that the abilty is super unreliable.
Something ahould be done to this actually great ability. Renaming would cost less time and enable to differentiate between the abilities. Streamlining them would be more difficult because it requires more rebalancing.
I suggest renaming the abilities, and, if the need arises, rebalancing them to and maybe reduce the number of abilities that do similar things later on.
EDIT: I got a typo in the thread topic. How can I correct it? Edit does not allow it |
Had something very similar as I tried new Rangers with super bazookas. They got halfway supressed by MG (yellow supression not red one). I could select the unit and see their unit portrait in the hud but it had no abilties or action buttons, the Retreat button was missing too. Only after smoking the MG and rcovering from supression they could retreat. Strange error that I couldn't reproduce afterwards.
Happened to me once too and saw that on VonIvan's stream as well |
Problem with Riflemen is that they struggle against Volks in the early game due to their slightly higher reinforce cost, they are just about even with a single BAR vs the STG upgrade but then they become extremely powerful once they get a 2nd BAR and hit Vet 2-3. I would like BAR's to get nerfed a bit but then become cheaper so getting 2 of them doesn't cost as much but wouldn't have as good of performance. Right now it takes 20+ minutes to be able to Double BAR up your 3-4 squads.
But does it really come down to Rilfe vs Volks in your opinion?
Sure, Riflemen are more expensive both to buy and reinforce, but they're also a good tad stronger.
Also you'll loose about 20 models in the early game, which would cost you 60 manpower more. That's not that much and by far not enough to cost you the game. |
Not going to close the thread because it may be a legitiment problem for this player. It's not like the majority of the posts in this thread have been even remotely helpful towards OP. :/
Start by narrowing the field of concern from the OP. For example, we don't know what gamemode they're talking about. Jacksons are problematic for example, but they're more prominent in teamgames than 1v1.
What gamemode are you talking about? What are the concerns you have about allied armor? No armor piece is instant win, although some are stronger than others.

I've read OPs post again to see if I missed something. Your good intentions in all honor, but OP is just ranting. The only part that comes close to a discussion point is:
As for axis heavies (including the panther), they are having an extremely hard time escaping the Range/RoF/Pen/Damage of allied TD, the most offfending one being the Firefly due to its retarded damage and range. Su85 is also broken, with its selfsighting trick and HMG-Like RoF.
This is something that surely can be talked about and there are multiple threads on that subject (one is running just now). It even does not matter if the stuff he describes is objectively correct or not, but the post is just another "Allies OP!" and "Axis OP!" that we don't need. Nothing that would promote a discussion, only very faint and few arguments if at all. People are not helpful because OP does not make a legitimate and honest effort. |
Go complain when the commanders will be in a surprise mechanic box with 1% drop chance, with remaining 99% being 10 bulletins that don't even change into currency.
It really doesn't get any more stupid to equalize DIRECT FUCKING PURCHASE OF WHAT YOU WANT with something that's being locked from you behind a math that is supposed to make you invest artificially set sum of money before you're allowed to have a chance at what you wanted.
In CoH setting, if you go to buy a banana, you go and buy banana.
In EA setting, if you go to buy a banana, you'll get 200 onions before you'll get a banana and that's if you're lucky, other customer may get banana on first try, while another may pay a lifetime supply of onions and never see banana.
Believe me, there is no one on this forum who knows as much shit about that as me, after all, I used to build this shit.
While it's true that lootboxes and the CoH2 model is hard to compare, you're leaving out important information.
Given Relic's track record of overnerfing and overbuffing things, the commander you buy today because you think it's cool and opens up different strategies might not be like that tomorrow. We've seen many commanders come and go, and I'd be pissed if I spent real money just to see the commander nerfed to unplayability.
And before you jump on that train: I'm not talking about nerfing OP stuff for balance, but some commanders have changed from a viable meta build to completely useless within one patch.
If you buy a commander, you still don't know what you get. Might be a banana for a week, and become an onion for the rest of the game |
Could a mod please close this thread?
It's probably just a troll post but even if it isn't it's not a proper contribution to the current discussion by far. |
I've heard rumors about slight nerf to OKW's opening strength next patch, together with slight nerf to Tommies, compensated with slight buffs to other UKF units.
#BelieveInUSF
That would actually be pretty great |