You probably could, but I doubt it'd be very useful.
Snipers wouldn't use it: if you're hiding your sniper you're on Hold Fire, and if you're A-moving it you actually want it to stop and shoot vehicles.
If it didn't, it'd walk straight towards them.
So what about all the camo squads that I also mentioned in the first post? And AI speacialist vehicles?
I mean in the case of the Brit-SNiper it kinda makes sense to engage vehicles since he sports an AT-rifle but I didn't even know that the Wehrmacht and Soviet snipers are actively engaging vehicles like wtf 
Even then I don't want my Brit sniper to fire on vehicles all the time. He often does not even pen and I don't want him to reveal himself if a P4 attacks, because he could get killed easily.
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Well, as the title says:
Is it possible at all and if so, how difficult would it be for the mod team to implement a prioritize infantry ability?
I hate that snipers and camouflaged infantry open up on medium tanks like total retards.
The argument that there is "hold fire" does not count, since I don't see anyone raging about the "prioritize vehicles" ability, which is the same thing. |
Removing the Churchill's smoke is a must . There is really no excuse for a unit with so much HP to have a smoke ability and to actually be destroyed at all must solely rely on attack ground .
Honest question:
How often is the ability used and how quickly does it cover a retreating Churchill?
At least at my rank, I never saw a Brit player use this smoke, so I don't know. I used it sometimes, but I'm not sure if this was really what made my Churchill survive.
The ability was actually meant as a offensive ability to cover assaulting infantry, it also makes the tank even slower and enables more shots for the enemy, even if these are only ground shots. |
The Cromwell is a terrible tank and I'm actually not even sure what useful purpose it serves besides countering Pumas. It costs as much as a Sherman but is worse in every way, Bad AI bad AT.
I'm sure you have the data of thr Cromwell's 'horrible' stats to back up your claims. |
cromwell is in no way bad, it has more pen and speed than p4 and ai is comparable, with the cromwell having more consistent damage and the p4 getting more one shoot potential for more luck needed (in short p 4 has bigger near aoe but much worse far damage, it's only 8 vs 32 of the cormwell)
the comet is still good and a perfect mini tiger, it could use a vet 1 reload buff but that's it, it has great armor, pen,45 range and speed
While I agree that the Cromwell is actually not that bad (from what I felt ingame it lacks a bit in the AI departement compared to the P4s, but I don't have much hard data on that, you seem to have more), the pen on the Cromwell and P4s is mostly the same. Especially if you keep in mind that the P4s and Axis tanks in general usually have more armor. So P4 has about 75% pen chance (slightly depending on range of course) against cromwell, while it's approximately 66% the other way around. Rest of the stats is absolutely comparable. |
Churchills, like literally any other armored unit in the whole series, are best countered by specialized TD vehicles, anti tank guns and infantry/mines screening for AT guns.
If you want magical one type only unit solution, you have ele/jt.
If it doesn't push and retreats instead for repairs, you've countered it.
That's why I wrote >best< countered. Maybe you should try to read a post correctly before giving your ever so smart answers.
Of course the Brumbär will take damage if it attacks an AT gun, but this does not mean that the AT gun is the best counter for the Brumbär. You should chose a TD. Similar thing for the Churchill. |
Only if you use rifles to counter it.
Try AT gun.
Churchills are best countered by TDs, not AT guns.
Churchills AI is alright, it's AT is very lacking |
Some stats for direct comparison (I used OKW P4 as the front armor values are similar and it is the most costly medium tank and guns are comparable):
name OKW p4 Churchill difference
Manpower 380 490 -110
Fuel 140 160 -20
Pop 14 16 -2
Armor 234 240 -6
Hitpoints 640 1400 -760
Rear armor 90 180 -90
Target size 22 26 -4
Speed 6 4 2
accuracy - far 0,025 0,025 0
accuracy - mid 0,0375 0,0375 0
accuracy - near 0,05 0,05 0
Damage 160 160 0
Penetration - far 110 105 5
Penetration - mid 115 120 -5
Penetration - near 125 135 -10
Range 40 40 0
Sight 35 35 0
Reload avg 5,5 6,5625 -1,0625
So, what do you get for 100 MP and 20 FU more?
Mostly health (which is huge) and rear armor, so even medium tanks will bounce regularly from the rear armor. Jagdpanzer IV and StuGIII will have 71% frontal/94% rear pen chance, Panther has 92%/100% at their respective max range.
You pay for with a worse gun (due to higher reload), and a waaaaay slower tank. Also higher target size that translates to ~10% higher chance to be hit.
Other factors are:
- utility: Churchill: lobs a grenade and can create a smoke screen that nobody ever uses / P4: Blitzkrieg at vet 1
- side-tech cost: Churchill needs side-tech, that also brings other benefits for UKF, so you can't add the cost completely to the Churchill.
I think Churchill is mostly fine and not as broken as many think. In my opinion, it maybe could cost 1-2 more population.
One weird thing I find is that the health is not dividable by 160 nor 80, which means that a Churchill can limp away with 120 health or even only 40 if snared, which can be very frustrating for the axis player.
EDIT: I just saw that the forum screws over the format of the stats. Quoting gives a nicer, more readable format. |
One question:
Are the PPSH penals really worth it?
The Soviet commander is alright to have fun with it, but if I want/need close range firepower, isn't it better to just get shocks with a different commander? They are more durable, cost only about 60 MP more and you don't need to pay muni to upgrade. Grenade instead of satchel is more of an upgrade for me in most cases, also you have the option to smoke. Similar thing with the PPSH upgrade for airborne guards.
I mean, the commander all in all is alright. DshK is nice, rocket strafe is decent, rally point adds a nice twist, especially if a USF teammate parks his ambulance next to it.
But then again the CQC capabilities are so super redundant, I felt the only real reason for the crate drop is to upgrade your conscripts, since it's a real upgrade and not just a sidegrade. If I want a CQC squad with that commander, I go for the airborne guards.
I should add that I never player the commander with a T1 build, it's just my thoughts when reading the patch notes. |
Changing it's role completely to a howitzer could be interesting, but let's be realistic: 1. It's difficult to not make it redundant with the Katjusha. 2. The game is waaaaay too old for that. We should aim for simple, yet effective solutions.
Soviet T3 actually has a good unit mix. AA/AI-support unit. AI specialist light tank, AT specialist light tank. The SU76 is not an unreliable unit, but there are cheaper ways for Soviets to get the same performance by back-teching and buying a ZiS. So the problem is, as correctly stated previously, the cost/performance ratio.
So we have two options:
1. Make SU76 cheaper -> In my opinion a bad idea due to how many problems this could lead to regarding spammability and suicidal dives by using it's long range.
2. Make SU76 stronger -> In my opinion the way to go.
The earlier SU76 had mostly reliable hit/pen chance against a P4, 160 damage and 60 range plus a free barrage. The new version got accuracy nerfed and damage nerfed to 120 damage, which means 6 shots to kill a medium, plus an expensive barrage.
Upping the damage back to 160 could lead to random P4 RNG kills in a the 2v1 situations that the Axis player will likely face. So I'm not sure if this reversal would be so great or not. Lowering accuracy could counter that but makes the unit frustrating to use and fight against for both players.
As a first step to test how to get SU76 back into the meta, I suggest to give it a timed ability (heat shells) that increases damage to 160 and maybe penetration as well for ~30 mun. Also make the barrage ~20 mun.
In my eyes, SU76 could be mediocre unit for standard use that can be boosted to a strong TD or artillery piece if you pay muni in the correct moments. Due to the munition sink that a SU76 will be, it won't be spammable, but might fit into more builds since it can be very useful and be "a poor man's SU85" as originally intended. Also we would preserve the Soviet theme of utility with multi-purpose units.
This could come along with minor cost adjustments. If it's enough, we keep the unit like that. If not, we can discuss if we make stat buffs permanent. |