Yeah, you're right. I forgot that the HP is >600 on mediums, not 600 so 3 hits wouldn't kill it. I still think that the panther is stronger currently than it would have been with 200 dmg and longer reload.
Btw. I wasn't calling anyone an idiot (OP called 75% braindead)
It's not necessarily to make it stronger or weaker though, it's to give it definition. 200damage would make it stronger against the units Ostheer struggles against and less strong against the units it has many tools for already. Similarly for okw.
No faction should require a doctrine to fight heavy Armour and the Panther fails slightly at that role. More reliability and role definition would be a welcome change. |
Vetted SU85 is faster than Jackson, do I need to say more?
And how's its return fire capabilities? It's not the speed alone that makes the Jackson king, it's that even on retreat it's a threat to armour that chases it. |
Your first post states "I came up with this idea: Make Panther 200 DMG with slower rate of fire (like Firefly). So :..."
If that is not a "Buff panther" then I truly am an idiot. You'd give it a huge boost to damage while only taking away 1.6 seconds on the reload. Paired with huge armour and HP (heavy tank-like stats), great speed, great penetration, that 200 damage would wreck all medium tanks. Nothing could stand against it's speed and survivability and hard hitting damage.
You are either proposing a buff to Panther or recoloring of firefly which is by itself the BS "more in line with..." cookie cutting.
200 damage wouldn't change ttk against mediums and only change its effect on premium mediums, heavies and lights. Ironically everything except the thing you are whining about.... Calling them an idiot with that in mind is also quite ironic.... |
The difference here is that not only "Assault Support Doctrine" that combines a Tiger and an Officer did not even make it into the load out but even when the Officer was available in the Osttruppen doctrine it was not even build.
A unit that is "very effective CQB squad" would probably had been built.
I've never argued that it's a "very effective CQB squad" but not seeing it often isn't surprising. Utility in units is almost always criminally overlooked In favor of more directly applicable stats.
What's more, the oh officer seems more tuned to team games where it's abilities will see more use as opposed to smaller modes where every drop of manpower needs to pull its weight on the front.
The comparisons to ass grens in both combat power and reinforce are Lilley the issue- I'm guessing people are using the officer like ass grens and that's not his jam. |
They, however, do not perform that role in the same way.
That's just arguing semantics(again).
Its widely accepted by the community for years that tank destroyers regard 60 range TDs, while tank hunter is panther exclusive as its meant to use its superior mobility and durability to engage and win by brawling/outlasting targets, not sniping them from afar.
The only thing that could be argued is that M10 and StuG3 sit somewhere in-between these 2 roles, exchanging range and durability for superior numbers.
I'd jam puma into a light tank hunter role as well |
i've play every faction and i'm not a nerd like you that spends the whole day in the game to master every faction, second you can master 1 faction at once to all, think before talking
The best way to master a faction is to understand it from both sides. Knowing what your enemy is capable of and what their weaknesses are as well as your own by playing against it. You'll see that the bulk of the "everything allied/axis has is OP" come from single faction players because they don't understand the weaknesses of what they are fighting because they have never had them exploited against them.
One doesn't have to be a pro to be taken seriously but one does need to understand the game as a whole |
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Just reading the OP and nothing else, you only play axis yes? Guessing you've played tops 10games of the other 3 factions? |
That is quite irrelevant to the argument, both falls and JLI used to be infiltration units and caused no balance issues.
The choice between "OKW infiltration units or balance in game" is simply fictional.
While they used to be fine, they were rebalanced to be batshit op. Keep in mind the stock okw has effective no weakness mainline AND core elite long range elite infantry so a unit that has infiltration built into its cost can't compete. It's similar to the problem with elite infantry in the usf. It's difficult to make a doctrinal unit that is technically not needed be attractive.
So a balanced infiltration unit will seem worthless (as both jli and falls seemed to the powers that that be) |
Ok then, I'll repeat it for you specifically:
Not stealth units,0 long range stealth units, when all others are CQC.
More specifically, long range stealth units that have no NEED for stealth and can operate just fine charging across open ground but also happen to have stealth. They aren't ambush units anymore they are ubersoldaten that can, if they so please, ambush to win even harder. |
"hit nothing or wipe everything from across the map" is still pretty bad design in my book
I'd give it more warning I think and increase reliability a bit. Kinda make it an onmap off map. Add a munitions cost to firing (say 50mu), when it fires give it a Sturm tiger tinnitus ring and when it hits widen out the aoe far aoe a bit. Now it's got more than enough warning AND an built in prevention for over use AND if you do use it, even a near miss will damage infantry. A bit better, more reliable but all the counter play in the world. |
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