Okay Commandos are tied for the 16th best veterancy instead of the 17th best veterancy out of ~20 infantry squads 
Well Ranger get the same veterancy with Paras and even guards get bonuses of similar level...
(many elite infatry with high base stats do not get as high vet bonuses as other units.)
(For instance Osttruppen get better vet bonuses than grenadier but that does not make scale better )
Commandos used to have bad veterancy bonuses as many UKF units, but that was patched out. Relic had many units with low base stats get good vet bonuses and many units with high base stat have low veterancy bonuses.
I have read the argument that commandos "do not scale well" again and again and it simply does not hold water. It is simply a myth to downplay commandos and present worse than they actually are.
The unit has powerful bases stat and its veterancy bonuses are inline with other elite infantry like Paras/Ranger.
Commandos are a cost efficient unit and very difficult to kill once they reach vet 3. |
I know, and it still the worst infantry vet in the game (IB4 engineers). I'll be honest that i forgot the speed buff on ambush, but nevertheless, my statement is still true. If the word "worst" triggers you, i'll consider the vet worst than:
Con, Penal, Guard, Shock, Partisan, Gren, PG, Osstruppen, Ass G, Storm, Jaeger, Rifles, RE, LT, Cpt, Ass Eng, Pathfinders, Cavalry, Paras, SP, Volks, Ober, PF, JLI, Falls, IS.
Commandos vs Paras
vet 1
passive healing , Unlocks light smoke grenade vs -25% ability recharge time
point goes to Commandos
vet 2
+35% speed during ambush for 3.25 second, +30% accuracy, 25% grenade range vs +25% accuracy, +25% grenade range, Passive Healing
point goes to Commandos
Vet 3
0.9 received accuracy, Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat vs -20% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy
point goes to Paras
All and all better RA accuracy bonus (but worse total number) vs 0.5 accuracy and -20% weapon CD on top of that Commandos get healing earlier a smoke grenade and smoke bomb on retreat.
I would call them in line. |
Which infantry units are you comparing this to which would have worse stat bonuses than this?
To my knowledge 30% acc and no cooldown is quite low as is .9 RA
For comparison tommies have 25% acc, -20% cd and .77 RA as vet bonuses
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Combat bonuses are low but base stat are very high. For instance target vet 3 for commandos is 0.65 and for IS is 0.62. And on top of that Commandos get a smoke grenade on retreat making very difficult to wipe.
But on top of the combat bonuses they get, 5 more things... |
Commandos main cheese and role was, stay cloaked, throw nuke nade and wipe a squad. Something OH can also do after changes to camouflage and PG.
They are only good at that and they pay for it in their cost acquistion and having the worst infantry based vet in the game.
This is why they can't be compared IMO cause they have completely different strengths, usage (Commando/Falls) and scaling.
that is no longer accurate, commandos vet bonus have increased allot and combined with base stat make the unit scale well...
vet 1 passive healing , Unlocks light smoke grenade
Vet 2 +35% speed during ambush for 3.25 second, +30% accuracy, 25% grenade range
Vet 3 0.9 received accuracy, Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat |
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Camo for ATG:
M-42 can move and rotate at reduced speed while camo get first strike bonus from vet 1.
RW can only rotate but not move with camo, need vet 1 for camo and vet 3 for first strike bonus.
I personally find RW camo annoying. When it come up it stop the unit from moving but any attack or A-move order remain. Thus once uncloaked the unit might start moving.
My suggestion would be to make camo atg behave in the same manner. All can rotate an normal speed but moving break the camo. The camo should now be delayed before kicking in. |
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This is not actually a bug but in some map the rally point if set behind the HQ and units tend to move away from the battle field when they spawn from HQ. Some time it can be annoying.
Can this be fixed pls. |
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Now this M20 nerf isn't about M20 powerspike, and that's why 99% of the poster here are completely wrong. It's about its survivability vs other light vehicles like the M20 was impossible to counter with a 222 or a luch to the point of completely removing its AT defense from the unit....
M20 is cost efficient unit with or without the bazooka.
Micro light vehicle game in general sucks. M3 flamer cars, WC51 and m20 can completely mess up a game and get wipes on retreat. In return the 222 obliterates these vehicles.
Micro light vehicles could see an overhaul by increasing their window of opportunity lowering their impact, reintroducing the 221 as a soft counter to them (delaying and redesigning the 222), lowering their pop with veterancy or tech...
But I seriously doubt that since the MOD seem to (instead of increasing the window of opportunity of early unit) allowing increasing more powerful units earlier in the game. |
Giving M20 crew a zook with armor doctrine would be cool to see, considering mechanized, cavalry and recon support have taken the spotlight recently.
Even better nerfing the abilities of these commander would better so of the abilities are simply op... |
M20 was the same during the last patch and nobody complained about it. Try gain.
Did the last patch happen before "years"? try again. And people did complain about the M20.
And people not complaining about something is not really an argument. A unit can be broken and people might not complain about it (see Dshk)
Then why a 222 that cost barely the same as a M20 should destroy it?
Then why a m36 that cost barely the same as the Pz IV j should destroy it?
Maybe because 222 is an AT/AI vehicle and M20 is an AI vehicle.
Maybe because the 222 has higher tech cost and comes later.
Maybe because the 222 has lower armor and take damage from infartry.
Maybe because of faction design that makes ostheer lucking in light tanks. |
While you are at it, can you list the change to any other units in the game because that's pretty much as relevant to the topic.
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Not really they are not relevant to the topic.
Your claim:
M20 crew zook had never been an issue in years and then suddenly top players are complaining about it and hop without much thought about it, let's remove it and nerf even more the unit.
I simply wrong. The m20 did not remain the same during these "years" and contrary to your claim it was not nerfed it was buffed directly and indirectly with the tech changes.
Currently it one of the strongest units of cost and time frame. |
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cblanco ★ 
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