You can't read, can you?
Conscripts behind conscript sandbags, full cover, still lost vs G43s behind normal sandbags. You put pio, I put IS sandbags, same s***.
In every scenario, conscripts lost. Every. Especially if they were behind IS sandbags since the squad size demands that 1-2 models will be next to the cover and not behind it.
I did it at a normal max range. Clicked on conscripts to attack without fog of war, and where they stopped to attack I made 10 sandbags, separated so that the squads don't attack each other. The test was done fairly quickly. If they had lost 5-6 times only, then the test would be inconclusive and 20-50 more test would be needed. but since they lost 35/36 engagements (12*3 if you can't multiply). Both con sand, both IS sand, con sand vs IS sand.
Nothing of this contradict what I have posted (not in full cover/range 35):
Strangely in the test I did 7 men conscripts vet 3 in cover beat in some cases 5 men grenadiers vet 3 in cover at ranges close to 30...
Once more I suggest you use the word like "liar" and "shame on you" more carefully. |
Umm, no, you are talking about G43 PFs.
He CLEARLY talks about first minutes of the game and massive PF advantage over penals that isn't combat, but snowballs into very early luchs/puma.
Stop jumping in other people debates without even reading what has been posted. This started by my response to stromjager who was talking about 2-3 g43 PF and that is simply not available at 2-3 minutes
And the capping power you're suggesting here leads to situation where OKW has 3 combat squads on field and Soviets have 1 and 2 engineers, leading to a loss of every engagement and following loss of map control.
And here we go again using fancy names like combats squad as arguments. As you are well aware soviet engineers are called Combats engineer and they can fight. CE spam is even a viable tactic.
Stop playing on excel sheets and check the reality once in a while, where more then your exclusively vacuum chosen stat matters.
Stop fighting in the forum and try fighting in game.
This is why PFs are playable and used despite their early game weakness, while penal meta is completely and utterly DEAD.
Source and stats pls. |
May be replace ranger with cav rifle with adjustments? It was cavalry company after all.
That would be one option. |
Liar...Grens won 11/12...There is no way in hell that conscripts with 7th man win vs G43 grens...
You come to the conclusion that I am liar because you did 12 test in some of which according to your own admission there were conscript entities out of cover where grenadiers where down to 2 models and even lost a match.
When according to your own test conscripts manage to test when all entities where in cover even at range 35 and I was taking about range 30.
How exactly there is no way in hell for conscripts to win even if your test they did win at least once?
I would suggest to more careful before calling people liars.
(the test I did where with pioneer sandbags at range 30 and in my tests conscripts managed to win very close being down to 1 model)
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do OKW players have to tech up before getting fussies thus impacting their map control? i may have missed that in the patch notes but im fairly sure thats not the case, in which case it still requires 460mp for your first penal and 560 for your 2 fussies. thats an entire extra squad to cap and 3 combat squads for okw compared to 1 for soviet (sturm, fussie, fussie vs CE, penal)
We are talking about G43 PF, vanilla PF are inferior to conscripts while costing 20 manpower more.
G43 upgrade requires a set truck and 80 munition bringing the total cost of the units to 295/80 vs 300 for penal. It also make the G43 PF available at later time especially if one is talking 2-3 squad as the post I responded did.
If one wants capping power with T1 one can build 1-2 engineers first and then build T1.
But this thread is about conscripts so lets not talk about Penal and PF here. |
Why do you thing we're calling med tanks generalists and mainline infantry generalist inf?
Change "we" to "I katitof" because you are the one trying to turn fancy titles into arguments.
"spoiler
its the ability to engage directly or contribute heavily when engaging both, infantry and armor alike, in case of generalist mainline inf, its the ability to damage/snare vehicles without specialized weapon upgrade"
You learned how to use the spoiler button, how cute.
Penals are mainline infatry as much as tommies are.
(Unless in your own bizarre theory UKF do not have a stock mainline infatry)
And Penal's satchel causes engine damage and can contribute heavily at damaging vehicles so according to your own personal definition they are "generalist mainline infatry".
And I have no intended of derailing yet another thread because you want to argue semantics, so I stop with these factual corrections. |
Well that explains it. I might be getting small discrepancies but this pushes the difference between that 4.5%/13.5% to 8.27%15.53% if we were to account for the reload bonus which is close to what the DPS comparison showed up in the patch notes.
So no, the cooldown modifier doesn't increase the dmg at all ranges between 15/20%. It's closer to 5% to 15%.
Strangely in the test I did 7 men conscripts vet 3 in cover beat in some cases 5 men grenadiers vet 3 in cover at ranges close to 30... |
Actually yeah, its ok for AI specialist to have very AI oriented strength within rifles as that's the only weapon the squad has to fight in AI(unless you're one of "these" people, who don't dodge satchels) over a generalist packed with shitload of utilities, flares, nades, AT nades etc.
You are entitled to your opinion but just because you giving fancy titles to units like "AI specialist" and "generalist" that does not make your opinion buck by an actual argument. |
Penals cost 460mp for their first one, fussies get close to 2 squads for that price. Map control helps offset the munitions cost.
If you want to add the T1 building for Penal you have to add a full truck for G43 PF and that is more fuel and manpower.
I think penals should follow a similar design as fussie but fussies are overperforming being able to match enemy map control and then match them in combat or exceed their combat potential.
With fussies you basicly get the pros of penals without the cons.
I was simply pointing out that poster was cherry picking stats talking only about a specific stat for specific weapon and ignoring everthing else. |
There's no "LIKE" penals. Penals are in a league of their own on the move, noone comes close. The downside is they suck in all other scenarios, no cover, bad RA, etc.
3 Kar98s don't matter, once you get a blob of 2-3 g43 fusiliers going you can get some crazy wipes, especially with their new buffed grenades. Once you get on retreat paths with them you can get wipe after wipe. They're better than Riflemen in that regard, especially with no need to sidetech for a nade and less muni investment.
In other words it ok for Penal to have better moving accuracy but bad to PF to spend 80 munition to get good moving accuracy.
And if one invest 885 manpower and 240 mu on infatry he might get some wipes by minute 7-8?
In sort Penals good and PF bad. |
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