Imagine implying a 6man squad with 3 G43s with 80% moving accuracy and a lethal grenade, no sidetech for nade or snare, is between 1 and 2 BAR riflemen in performance and imagine stating that they’re not used in tournaments because they’re weak instead of because their doctrines are bad.
I’d be playing as seed 28 in ML3 had I signed up and I wouldn’t be playing Pfusiliers if I played OKW not because they’re not the monster unit that they are but because their doctrines are far inferior to the Asiamint Spec Ops build vs usf and soviets, while JLIs are the only choice vs UKF.
Since the K98 has bad accuracy on move the total moving accuracy of the squad is not that great and inline with other infatry with "carbine" rifles like Penals.
So according to you a Panther should have a 70% chance to damage a medium at range 50 and and SU-85 should have a chance of 80% range 60 and 104% once vetted.
what? if the opponent buys an SU-85 as area denial to your cheaper panzer 4 and ONLY your cheaper Panzer 4 then its a clear win on your end... all you simply have to do is to punish the soviet player for this by using infantry...
How many games have you won because your opponent build a su-85.
the panther is fine because it has a turret is faster is more armored and has some use vs infantry especially with the pintle... the tradeoff between the 60 range gun and the armor + turret + speed + usefulness vs infantry is very much worth its cost...
theres a reason why people prefer the panther over the jagdpanzer4 despite the fact that the JP4 can counter all stock allied armor except the churchill
and having an enemy buy an SU-85 to counter the panzer 4 that comes earlier than the SU-85 is a win for you... you forced the enemy to buy a unit that counters your one unit which bullies the opponent all the way till they get the SU-85... soo you know for sure that 1. the opponent spent more than you 2. the opponent now locked down a large portion of their CP on dedicated anti armor 3. the opponent wont be fielding anything competent against infantry anytime soon unless youre airborne...
theres a reason why i always prefer getting a T-34 first as airborne...
it isnt lower in terms of raw DPS but it isnt efficient at conveying that DPS... when compared to the puma the latter can far more efficiently convey its DPS into its target
Yes staying at range 60 and chipping away the enemy HP sound far less efficient than having to micro a squishy vehicles and waste munition on smoke just to keep it alive. I guess that is why people are spamming Puma to counter allied mediums.
Let me explain this in plain English Puma is primarily used to counter allied light vehicles because without it they can bleed you dry and that is irrelevant to the SU-76.
Imagine wanting to nerf the su85 so that the POS su76 is built more. Imagine going through 50 pages of the wildest mental gymnastics imaginable to justify not buffing the su76 to competence.
Imagine posting continuously but being unable to contribute anything useful, tell how does it feel to be that non constructive and toxic T.R. Stormjäger?
And what is your opinion on opinion on Katitof post who suggested a similar thing, to nerf the Panther to make room for the stug/JP4?
How do we nerf panther against meds and buff it against heavies?
Both axis factions have medium TDs, so they don't need panther to counter it all.
How about 40 more pen and +2sec to reload while nerfing its RoF vet to 20%?
This way it reliably counters heavies and isn't as potent against meds, leaving space for unused StuG and JP4.
It nice to see that you have adopted one of my long time suggestions but the suggested numbers seem rather off according to current TDs stats.
The idea that Panther should have 8.65 secs ROF on main gun, 160 damage Accuracy 0.06/0.045/0.035 and around 7.5 secs ROF when vetted is not even close to unit a like FF.
FF has ROF 8.25, 200 damage, Accuracy 0.06/0.05/0.04 (nearly x142% higher at Panther's max range and once vetted ROF 6.25 240 damage, Damage 240, Accuracy 0.078/0.065/0.052 and that is even without counting Tulips.
The superior penetration would simply not be enough and it would probably fair worse vs high armored targets than now with this suggestion.
the argumentum ad absurdum falls flat at the original premise though, remember that on one hand we have a specialized anti armor unit that costs more than the generalist armor unit... it should absolutely crush the generalist... however if the SU-85 did 640 damage per shot it would be soo OP that it would literally destroy every other armored unit ingame in a 1v1... hence it is no longer beating the generalist armored unit alone but also more expensive anti armor specialists such as the JT or the elephant...
This is used as example and I explained it would only do 640 vs PzIV. I am simply pointing out that there are level of how good a unit can counter another.
the SU-85 is balanced right now because it strikes a balance between how much it costs and what it should counter... send a medium generalist at an SU-85? it should go poof... send a JT on an SU-85? expect the SU-85 to go poof....
So in your opinion the Panther who is even more expensive than a SU-85 how much change should it have to damage a medium allied tank at range 50.
the Panzer 4 has a powerful vet ability that causes it to run on overdrive... if we talk vet we also take into consideration its abilities....
Again if you can not counter PzIV with SU-85 you are probably doing something wrong. Risking a PzIV to kill a couple of conscripts models in not a great use of the unit.
when you take the turret smoke and vet ability advantage? yes of course... a puma will crush an SU-76 on a 1 on 1 easily...
Does a 1vs1 duel in a vacuum make SU-76 have low DPS vs mediums?
I have provided the stat and they are crystal clear the SU-76's DPS is line if not superior for cost.
The claim that SU-76 has low DPS is simply false, pls move on.
your two statements contradict each other... on one end youre concluding that the upgrade makes the unit lame and spammable and on the other youre claiming it may not be enough because the soviets still have the SU-85/zis/7 man on T4 combo...
There are 2 different issues.
One is balance and that is where spamming comes into place the other is diversity in builds.
In order to achieve balance one has to make cost efficient units and SU-76 a cost efficient unit.
In order to achieve diversity in builds a unit must bring something new to the table. The SU-76 does not simply becuase SU-85 is superior vs all vehicles and because a good enough barrage is available to zis.
this is exactly why the upgrade is necessary... that ways the soviets dont rely on a one trick pony for the lategame and can function efficiently either with multirole SU-76s or the SU-85/zis + T-34 trick...
Not really, if both unit can do the exact same thing and are both case mate one will be superior to other and always be picked over the other and there will no diveristy.
Having designed to excel SU-85 against super heavies and SU-76 vs mediums is abetter design.
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