Profile of donofsandiego

Carbines worked like that since forever in CoH...You're arguing real life. I'm arguing reality of the game series.

I just don't personally think that "it's always been like that" is a good argument for something to continue being like that. Say, for example, CoH has always implemented the Bazooka as a weapon that you use against other infantry squads like it's Call of Duty or something, and since it's so effective at anti-infantry, they made it so that it's really bad against vehicles to compensate. Then, since they needed something to perform well against vehicles, they gave the riflemen a grenade slingshot upgrade that they can use against tanks.

So, the game is definitely balanced; the bazooka is a good anti infantry weapon that's bad against tanks to compensate, and then riflemen have a good anti-tank weapon if they need it. It makes sense in the game, and in this hypothetical it's always been that way, since CoH 1 even. Does it make sense though? Does it need to be that way? Not really.

Point of the absurd hypothetical is just to say that just because something is the status quo, it isn't necessarily the best way of doing things.

Although I said I wouldn't come in here to talk balance, I do want to say that I like the idea of the M1 carbines being some kind of MP44 equivalent. Realistically, I think that it would be fine if they just slowed down the RPM of DAK panzergrens' K98s (visual change only). If you do that, then M1 Carbine is more of an outlier compared to the other mainline weapons.

Maybe, just maybe, if there was some kind of M2 Carbine upgrade (like NaOCl mentioned), then the paratroopers would have access to some kind of "fire superiority" type ability that lets them use their M1s to their fullest potential.


Just for comparison;

Rapid firing a K98


Rapid firing an M1 Carbine

It actually doesn't show on the replay, but prior to the first question mark, I had entered "/e has been flagged as a cheater by the VAC system."

Shortly after, the other team dropped one by one.

Hey guys, I don't usually do theorycrafting, but I think you guys will want to see this Ostheer strat:

https://www.coh2.org/replay/111699/op-strat

Makes perfect sense really.

Rifles need to be aimed, you don't just mash trigger because gun allows you to.

Carbines and garands aren't really all that different in CoH games.

Aiming is fairly intuitive at the distance which this game considers "close range".. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that when you're 5 meters away from someone, fine aim is way less important than being the first one to fire a shot (and keep firing until the other person can't). That's where the whole "semi-automatic" thing starts to shine.

Now, I didn't come here to have a discussion on balance. I was just agreeing with the OP (for flavor's sake, at the very least) that carbines and bolt actions having a comparable RPM at close range is kind of silly. Even if DAK panzergrens are supposed to be some kind of Über-elite supersoldaten hopped up on panzershokolade, they still have to contend with the fact that the magazines on their K98's are three times smaller than that of the M1, and yet again, they have to manually cycle the action after every shot. And you're telling me on top of all that, they have to really carefully pick out all their shots for some reason? Either the DAK panzergrens are working their guns like madmen and not aiming (so that thir rate of fire is even remotely close to that of the M1), or they're taking their time and aiming while the paratroopers are languidly firing their carbines like they're just having a fun day at the range. Either way it's silly.

So no, I very much disagree that it makes "perfect sense". What would make sense is if the panzergrens fired their rifles slower at close range. Easy peasy. Whatever you have to do to make the DPS the same as before, do it. Again, I'm just looking at this from an aesthetics standpoint; it does not make sense that in close quarters combat, the paratroopers and panzergrens are firing their rifles at each other at a comparable speed. It just doesn't.

And just to sidetrack on terms of balance, OP is absolutely right that the M1 Carbine has the DPS curve of a bolt action. It's almost identical to the DAK's K98.

So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.

I see what OP is talking about. At close range the carbines put out 33 RPM where a standard panzergren K98 puts out 27 RPM.

Once you get to mid and long range, the carbines have a much higher RPM than bolt actions.

Still, the DPS curve is basically just that of a bolt action.

EDIT: Oops. I didn't realize DAKzergren K98 is such an outlier... Grenadier K98 close RPM is 19.