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Can I get some advice? Trouble fighting 4x USF Airborne.

by donofsandiego 1st October 2022, 12:40 PM
  • [00:21:48] [BBG] alguelo: really good shot
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Patch: 3.0.0.24336
Duration: 00:58:12
1 Oct 2022, 12:40 PM
#1
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

So first off, I'd like to say what I already know:

1.) It occurred to me somewhat towards the end that I really should have made some grenadiers, but I decided against it because of how much infantry the USF had on the field that would just shred them instantly.

-Maybe I should have gotten them anyways, just to protect from dives?

2.) I didn't really end up making very good use of Close Air Support. Not only because I didn't have a lot of ammunition, but also because I kinda forgot about the AT strafe.

3.) I realized after about the third time they called in two P47 strikes that it might be a good idea to fake a push, to get their call-ins on cooldown, and then actually push. I tried to coordinate my teammates to push with me, but we were all pretty demoralized towards the end.

4.) I decided to give up on tanks mostly to spam infantry because of all the Jacksons and paratroopers with bazookas. Bad call? Should I have made grenadiers instead?

5.) When I pushed into the city and saw both USF players had pathfinders, I decided to rush an LV. Should I maybe have made two? Idk.

Go easy on me, I try to keep up the pressure as much as I can, but I get distracted and forget about things sometimes.

If you can, just watch the replay and tell me what you thought I should have done, what I should have told my teammates maybe. Thank you.
1 Oct 2022, 12:55 PM
#2
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

Wow also I was floating a lot of manpower I do see that.

That was kind of the point, I wanted to run light on manpower so I could call in fuel for the OKW player, but I also think I just forgot about it while I was microing my halftrack.
2 Oct 2022, 14:36 PM
#3
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1765 | Subs: 2

I watched a little bit of your match and it looked like you were doing fine. Except for floating 1k+ manpower for most of the match

Making a panther may not have been the best choice. The Jacksons with all that path vision will be too much to deal with in the lanes of the city. A werfer may have been a better choice. Once the paths are gone, any infantry can walk all over a Jackson. Your mates all went arty eventually though. So the panther was a better choice long term. It just gave the USF players a little more time on the field.

Dirty always says a gren blob beats paths. But that may be tough in the city. Lately, I do not make an MG unless I have an OKW partner.

On Lienne any short range inf may work once you drop some smoke to get close. Since you are fighting in a small space south of the VP. Flame pios are also always a good thing in the city to clear buildings. So you smoke, blob in some Pgrens and flame pios in case a building has units/MG. Pgrens shrek blob would be good later to delete Jacksons also.

It is OK to let the south team have the VP for a little time. Because once you get pushed out of south, it becomes almost impossible to take it back. The buildings are all too strong. And its usually GG time. So a good killing stroke works well there.

Not saying any of these ideas are good. Just ideas.

The flame half track was the right call. Proven by its 30+ kills

3 Oct 2022, 14:51 PM
#4
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 584

Bro, I think you could have closed left side of map out in the first 7-8 minutes. I watched with fog of war on to get a sense of what your battlefield knowledge was but I do get some spectator info so some info might be a bit harsh.

I like/love the double MG/double pio opening it worked fairly well especially on that side of the map. If USF has to make a mortar even better as you can have an infantry advantage. The issue that arises is your lack of commitment, your LV into flamer was a great choice was expecting a great push.
But you hid behind the fences driving back and forth, I think you were attempting to attack ground or scared of a snare? Either way you should have burst thru that fence like the Kool-aid man and handed out flames to everyone. You need to get as much ROI as possible since both sides have guaranteed fuel shortening your LV window.
The situation was multiple Paths and 1 Rifle man a few MGs at best. Take the snare if it comes and reverse your way behind buildings to protect yourself from MG. Repair and push again. They were not going to be able to kill it as it would take what 3-4 snares or AT rounds which would necessitate a reload allowing you to get away. So at WORST you take a snare and back up to safety, at best you catch the Allied Player who only had Paths and you force a mass retreat allowing you and teammate to push further up.
For this map I am not 100% double flames would have been better as a AAHT could have really messed you up as pathfinding multiple LV between building can lead to rage inducing moments.
Back to your STRAT, you took way to long to build PG, you need to pop them out as fast as possible as maintaining pressure is paramount while getting as much VET early for your PG is needed. PGs with Vet1 alongside flamers would have bullied what was around while giving USF players pause due to the possibility of Shreks to counter LV.
I think you did a great job placing schu mines, keep it up as it is really unexpected for most players.
As an allied main, you going for a Panther was a win. Your panther ain't doing shit to anything but tanks. If you find yourself in a similar situation again try going for Brumbar first, maybe even 2. Lack of snares allow you to be a bit aggressive with targeting and a bit forgiving if you are out of position you just need to use the reverse button more. I think with how much they were blobbing you wouldn't need to hold fire and just try to get to VET2 as fast as possible. Also due to low USF armor Brum can fight back meaning USF has to worry about possible snare if you do make grens.
The other reason I say to go for Brums is werfers can be quite inconsistent on this map on both sides. On the city side if you are to close to a building your gonna hit it like you did in the game while your targets can hug close to a building and protect themselves from you. Its can be even worse on the forest side as the trees are indestructible.
Lastly, why didn't you upgrade MG on your Panthers? Only one of your teammates had AA, so give him a bit of help while also boosting your AI.
31 Oct 2022, 10:10 AM
#5
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

snip


snip


Wow what? I really didn't see replies on this post. I'm baffled as to how I missed these. Reading now. Thanks for the advice!
31 Oct 2022, 10:26 AM
#6
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

I watched a little bit of your match and it looked like you were doing fine. Except for floating 1k+ manpower for most of the match


Yeahh just a little bit... :blush:

Making a panther may not have been the best choice....A werfer may have been a better choice. Once the paths are gone, any infantry can walk all over a Jackson. Your mates all went arty eventually though. So the panther was a better choice long term. It just gave the USF players a little more time on the field.


Agreed...I lucked out on my teammates going arty. Noted on the Werfer being better for the situation then the Panther. I was just deathly afraid of the Allied tanks at that point. Werfers and shreckzergrens would have definitely fared better. I can see it.

Dirty always says a gren blob beats paths...


Noted

Lately, I do not make an MG unless I have an OKW partner.


Really now? Must be some high level 4v4 stuff I haven't experienced yet. Usually mortars are few and far between in the games I play. But that's neither here nor there. Care to elaborate on this?

On Lienne any short range inf may work once you drop some smoke to get close. Since you are fighting in a small space south of the VP. Flame pios are also always a good thing in the city to clear buildings. So you smoke, blob in some Pgrens and flame pios in case a building has units/MG. Pgrens shrek blob would be good later to delete Jacksons also.


Very good point. I'm just wondering how I should play the early game in that case. Should I go light on grenadiers to make room for early panzergrenadiers (I.E. 2xPio 1xMG42 2xGren, then mortar after some panzergrens or something like that) or just play as normal but get panzergrens later?

...So a good killing stroke works well there.


What do you mean by this? You mean like a push with two or three teammates' armor in support?

The flame half track was the right call. Proven by its 30+ kills


Thank you very much. I can micro well sometimes, but I get tunnel vision pretty bad other times XD. I know people always say light vehicles counter paths so that's why I got it.

Me microing that halftrack was pretty much the whole reason I was floating MP lmfao.

31 Oct 2022, 10:47 AM
#7
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

Bro, I think you could have closed left side of map out in the first 7-8 minutes. I watched with fog of war on to get a sense of what your battlefield knowledge was but I do get some spectator info so some info might be a bit harsh.

I like/love the double MG/double pio opening it worked fairly well especially on that side of the map. If USF has to make a mortar even better as you can have an infantry advantage. The issue that arises is your lack of commitment, your LV into flamer was a great choice was expecting a great push.


Ty. I can't remember if I did this specifically because I was in the urban side or because I was expecting airborne because one of the players only had airborne commanders or something, but the early game definitely worked out in my favor with it.

But you hid behind the fences driving back and forth, I think you were attempting to attack ground or scared of a snare? Either way you should have burst thru that fence like the Kool-aid man and handed out flames to everyone.


DUDE I SWEAR TO GOD I WAS TRYING SO HARD TO DO THIS XDDDD

I remember DISTINCTLY being so pissed off at the halftrack because it wasn't breaking through the fence. I eventually just figured that it wasn't heavy enough to crush the freaking fence AND THEN IT CRUSHES IT ANYWAYS. I really have no excuse for this part and completely agree with you lmao

EDIT: After re-watching, I'm realizing now that you probably meant at the 5 minute mark. I understand what you mean, looking at it again. I really should have leveraged that halftrack more. I was probably scared of a snare and then getting killed by a theoretical Stuart tank. (I don't have a good intuitive knowledge of enemy tank/LV timings...)

You need to get as much ROI as possible since both sides have guaranteed fuel shortening your LV window


Good point. I didn't think about the guaranteed fuel part shortening LV time. Even though it's kinda obvious.


The situation was multiple Paths and 1 Rifle man a few MGs at best. Take the snare if it comes and reverse your way behind buildings to protect yourself from MG. Repair and push again. They were not going to be able to kill it as it would take what 3-4 snares or AT rounds which would necessitate a reload allowing you to get away. So at WORST you take a snare and back up to safety, at best you catch the Allied Player who only had Paths and you force a mass retreat allowing you and teammate to push further up.


Also a very good point.

Back to your STRAT, you took way to long to build PG, you need to pop them out as fast as possible as maintaining pressure is paramount while getting as much VET early for your PG is needed. PGs with Vet1 alongside flamers would have bullied what was around while giving USF players pause due to the possibility of Shreks to counter LV.


All good points.

For this map I am not 100% double flames would have been better as a AAHT could have really messed you up as pathfinding multiple LV between building can lead to rage inducing moments.


I am going to be honest with you dude; I have never made 2 LVs in 4v4 before. What are the situations in which this *would* be a good call in your opinion? I'm guessing paths spam is one of them? Serious question, I'd like to know for myself.

I think you did a great job placing schu mines, keep it up as it is really unexpected for most players.


Thanks dude. Schu mines are god's relic's gift to Wehrmacht. No, seriously, I love them :D

Sadly as my APM is pretty low that is also partially what contributed to me floating manpower so frigging hard xD.


As an allied main, you going for a Panther was a win. Your panther ain't doing shit to anything but tanks.


Yeahh. Seems to have been the case.

If you find yourself in a similar situation again try going for Brumbar...(snip)


Yeah, you make a good argument for the Brumm for sure. The only thing is the whole paths + jackson thing would make it a bit difficult to use I think. Though I suppose it could force retreats on paths with a good hit + panzergrens advancing along with it.

Lastly...only one of your teammates had AA, so give him a bit of help while also boosting your AI.


Noted. I forgot about the AA properties.

...why didn't you upgrade MG on your Panthers?


I actually didn't upgrade the Panthers with the mg because my thought process was: "I'm killing tanks with this thing, maybe support weapons if I catch them out of position (of which there were none), so I don't think it's worth upgrading with the mg". But again, that AA wouldn't've hurt.
31 Oct 2022, 11:09 AM
#8
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

On second watch. I think I realize now what killed me more than anything was that huge float + not playing aggressively enough with my flame HT. I should have totally gotten lots of panzergrens to counter. Alongside the flame HT they could have been nigh-unstoppable (at least against the USF player who had no AT literally at all lmao)
31 Oct 2022, 14:29 PM
#9
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 584



I am going to be honest with you dude; I have never made 2 LVs in 4v4 before. What are the situations in which this *would* be a good call in your opinion? I'm guessing paths spam is one of them? Serious question, I'd like to know for myself.


I was mainly responding to question 5. I am in general not a fan of multiple LV as the micro is intense.
If the map has safe fuel for both sides it is a hard no.
If the map can be contested or you have control of both fuel it is a case by case choice. However, if I remember correctly you were doing great with the schu mines so getting another LV might negatively impact that.

GG
31 Oct 2022, 14:56 PM
#10
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

snip


Many thanks.
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