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The ressource mathematics of Allied factions

14 Oct 2019, 23:36 PM
#21
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1



In 1v1 Everybody seems to be giving up on penals myself included :sibHyena:


Penals are a double-edged sword for soviets early game. The loss in map pressure is huge compared to conscripts, I think lots of people are starting to realize the map control is more important. Going cons also lets you build T2 when teching so you can get an ATG whenever you need it as well.
15 Oct 2019, 00:14 AM
#22
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947



In 1v1 Everybody seems to be giving up on penals myself included :sibHyena:


The few top 50 Soviets I've seen in 4v4 in the last couple of weeks all went cons. Most started with four, one of them started with three but got a second engineer and put a flamer on it. I don't remember most of them getting maxims out of T2. It seemed like it was usually just an ATG if needed and try to get a T70 as fast as possible.

15 Oct 2019, 00:18 AM
#23
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



In 1v1 Everybody seems to be giving up on penals myself included :sibHyena:


4 cons openings are amazing
15 Oct 2019, 00:58 AM
#24
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



In 1v1 Everybody seems to be giving up on penals myself included :sibHyena:


I think they're viable against OKW still. T1 still shits on standard OKW because reasons. When OKW goes falls though penals just kinda become obsolete.

Cons are very much viable now though which is nice, although as always and predicted it leaves penals in an awkward spot.
15 Oct 2019, 02:04 AM
#25
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1792

while i do agree in a mp reduction in any way for soviet that does not buff penal (free cons squad start of the game, Molotov free after tier 1 or 2 and tier 3 cost 10 more fuel,etc)

it's a bit unfair to show it like this as soviet need only 90 fuel then to tech for tanks, while all the other faction pay 120 + fuel


I dont think sov need buff as a result of such sketchy 'standard' build order comparison.

4 cons you don't need rush both nades.
Of cos factions have different openings. Sov can have ptrs penals, flammer clown car. I see less t70 rush now.

The point is to make standard the openings and balance to that don't make sense for a game design around aysmetery and unit compositions, at best, equalise out late game. I still say Wehr late game/vet need some buff and we are good

15 Oct 2019, 02:30 AM
#26
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Hmm not quite... the majority of these players go conscripts with svts or conscripts with ppsh... fighting LMG grens and STG volks while waiting for T3 + 25 fu upgrade is a tall order and requires one to outplay the opponent...
15 Oct 2019, 02:36 AM
#27
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1792

Yes sov cons can just out blob the Wehr boo early on. That is the current flavor now. So does usf rifles
15 Oct 2019, 02:37 AM
#28
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2019, 02:04 AMmrgame2


I dont think sov need buff as a result of such sketchy 'standard' build order comparison.

4 cons you don't need rush both nades.
Of cos factions have different openings. Sov can have ptrs penals, flammer clown car. I see less t70 rush now.

The point is to make standard the openings and balance to that don't make sense for a game design around aysmetery and unit compositions, at best, equalise out late game. I still say Wehr late game/vet need some buff and we are good



Here we go again with the "ost is crap" argument... its only crap if your bad enough to lose panthers to aecs...

And youve just made a pathetic excuse for the ridiculous expense of conscript sidetechs...
15 Oct 2019, 02:38 AM
#29
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2019, 02:36 AMmrgame2
Yes sov cons can just out blob the Wehr boo early on. That is the current flavor now. So does usf rifles


Grens and cons are quite balanced early on... there is no "stomping" involved unless the offending player is simply bad...

Yeah rifles need nerfs... that one is a given...
15 Oct 2019, 06:46 AM
#30
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2019, 20:08 PMKatitof
Not tech, medics. Only USF is comparable here


OKW, with Mechanized being the meta, either have to spend a fortune of munitions on med crates or they have to pay 370mp and 55 fuel to get medics.
15 Oct 2019, 07:03 AM
#31
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



OKW, with Mechanized being the meta, either have to spend a fortune of munitions on med crates or they have to pay 370mp and 55 fuel to get medics.

Whilt BG HQ isn't exactly meta, getting it and the upgrade doesn't provides you medics exclusively, contrary to other healing sources.
15 Oct 2019, 12:41 PM
#32
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2019, 07:03 AMKatitof
Whilt BG HQ isn't exactly meta, getting it and the upgrade doesn't provides you medics exclusively, contrary to other healing sources.


But the upgrade isn't mobile (Infantry Sections, Ambulance) nor does it have an easy aura (Ambulance), but it also can't get killed easily (Ambulance again) nor is it clumsy to use (Infantry Sections). Meanwhile Ostheer has to pay vital munitions and manpower that they really need for upgrades, abilities and units in their early-mid game.

Point being, all forms of healing in the game have their own upsides and downsides, and therefore it isn't really fair to compare them to each other. I think they should only be judged within their own faction's economy and ecosystem, and I think Soviet healing (mechanic and cost) within their own faction is fine (not great, not terrible).
15 Oct 2019, 12:49 PM
#33
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I had a game yesterday where my mates medics all bunched up on a single model air humping him trying to get to the guy behind him but unable to so they wouldn't heal anyone. I'd wouldnt say it's particularly mechanical sound when things like AOE healing exists...
15 Oct 2019, 13:38 PM
#34
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

i feel like soviet healing is not adding up to be honest its very expensive in manpower often resulting in map loss, and isnt very great either

I would suggest increasing the medics from 3 to 4-5 to make up for the larger sqads
15 Oct 2019, 14:05 PM
#35
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Soviets need AoE healing. It’s a huge issue, especially with the larger squad sizes.
15 Oct 2019, 15:15 PM
#36
avatar of Freestyler1992

Posts: 88

Jesus

Soviet
( 4 Cons, Maxim, Zis, T70, Molotov + AT grenade)

2655 MP + 190 Fuel


What on earth lol.
15 Oct 2019, 15:15 PM
#37
avatar of Freestyler1992

Posts: 88

Soviets need AoE healing. It’s a huge issue, especially with the larger squad sizes.


Yes! Either give it to all factions or to none.
15 Oct 2019, 15:34 PM
#38
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I wouldn't mind SLOW aoe heals after t3/4 or something just because it gets nuts if you have even 2 squads in base trying to get healed with the way models work.

Having to retreat to base is restrictive enough to offset the 6 man squads, it doesn't need to be unreliable and clumsy as well (the recent changes have certainly helped but it's still problematic)
15 Oct 2019, 15:34 PM
#39
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

i feel like soviet healing is not adding up to be honest its very expensive in manpower often resulting in map loss, and isnt very great either

I would suggest increasing the medics from 3 to 4-5 to make up for the larger sqads


The problem snowballs in 2v2's, especially if your teammate decides that they are going to use your healing. It can be really annoying to see your teammate camped in your base waiting for his squads to heal while losing the map. I run into the same problem playing OKW so this isn't unique to Soviets.
15 Oct 2019, 15:46 PM
#40
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



In 1v1 Everybody seems to be giving up on penals myself included :sibHyena:
But why though? I'm still using Penals + scout car openings. It's especially effective against Ost players who go ass grens or skip T1 for quick pgrens and OKW players in general.
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