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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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28 Aug 2019, 12:53 PM
#481
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1554

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 11:18 AMJilet


If you give bunkers pop-cap its fine to me since i do not use it anyways but medics must be provided by the base then.


Why? US ambulance has popcap
28 Aug 2019, 14:05 PM
#482
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 346


Why? US ambulance has popcap


Do Jacksons cost 18 pop cap or does OST do have on the move heal+reinforce ? (Do not come to me with the halftrack changes since you need to reinforce first then garrison to heal which kills A LOT of time)
28 Aug 2019, 14:13 PM
#483
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1554

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 14:05 PMJilet


Do Jacksons cost 18 pop cap or does OST do have on the move heal+reinforce ? (Do not come to me with the halftrack changes since you need to reinforce first then garrison to heal which kills A LOT of time)


What does the jackson have to do with medic bunkers?

I guarantee you US players would trade "mobile" (it has to be locked down) healing/reinforce in a hearbeat for a healing station that doesnt die in 1-shot. Its common for people to dive into US base just to kill it, using it in the field really isnt that viable an option....
28 Aug 2019, 16:04 PM
#484
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 346



What does the jackson have to do with medic bunkers?


It is about the general Popcap...


I guarantee you US players would trade "mobile" (it has to be locked down) healing/reinforce in a hearbeat for a healing station that doesnt die in 1-shot. Its common for people to dive into US base just to kill it, using it in the field really isnt that viable an option....


Using it in the field is 10/10 viable option. And if you are letting your opponent to faceroll you to your base well that is a deserved loss.
28 Aug 2019, 16:30 PM
#485
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 802

German bunkers should need pop-cap? Even concrete bunker don't worth it, because they are way too easy to destroy, same for german bunkers, simply build a PaK and hit it 4 times.
28 Aug 2019, 16:34 PM
#486
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1554

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 16:04 PMJilet

Using it in the field is 10/10 viable option.


No it is not. Nobody does this unless you feel like losing 10 fuel for no reason

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 16:04 PMJilet

And if you are letting your opponent to faceroll you to your base well that is a deserved loss.


But only for US? Cause nobody else has their healing get 1-shotted

German bunkers should need pop-cap? Even concrete bunker don't worth it, because they are way too easy to destroy, same for german bunkers, simply build a PaK and hit it 4 times.


*All bunkers, FPs are included here

You can make them cheaper in cost when they have popcap, which is a better tool to limit them than resources
28 Aug 2019, 17:30 PM
#487
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 802


*All bunkers, FPs are included here

You can make them cheaper in cost when they have popcap, which is a better tool to limit them than resources


US bunker is a better tool for some situations, because of the passive rifle-nade. That doesn't mean that I want more bunker-play.

German have to build bunker, because their Inf is shit in close-combat.


Touching this mechanism will move a hole fraktion-design. -> I would be a fan of that, if German get e.g. 5 men for Grens non-doc (T3 like Soviets) or if Ostwind could suppress with an ability (not the hull-mg). Allii infantry-play is simply too dominant and have too much single-power perfomance, diving into the side.

28 Aug 2019, 17:33 PM
#488
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1554


Touching this mechanism will move a hole fraktion-design.


Isn't it a little late to be making that point? With all the changes we've seen recently?
28 Aug 2019, 17:34 PM
#489
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 802



Isn't it a little late to be making that point? With all the changes we've seen recently?


CoH's balance is shit, yes.
28 Aug 2019, 18:50 PM
#490
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 346



No it is not. Nobody does this unless you feel like losing 10 fuel for no reason

Nobody does it ? There is something called soft retreat so you can get your boys faster early game. Also ambo is mobile itseft so it can deliver itself to the front when conditions are met. Ambo is WAY more flexible than the OST bunker healing.


But only for US? Cause nobody else has their healing get 1-shotted

Why ? If you are getting face rolled to your base as OST then your healing bunker will be rekt too 100%. Since you can only basedive with a tank or lv.


*All bunkers, FPs are included here

You can make them cheaper in cost when they have popcap, which is a better tool to limit them than resources
28 Aug 2019, 19:41 PM
#491
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1554

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 18:50 PMJilet

Why ? If you are getting face rolled to your base as OST then your healing bunker will be rekt too 100%. Since you can only basedive with a tank or lv.


It takes 3 shots, which is a long time for a tank to be hanging around someones base, however its very easy to a drive by when the thing dies in 1. The entire point is that you dont have to be getting facerolled to get your ambulance picked off, they can just show up, shoot it, and scram, even if its an otherwise even match
28 Aug 2019, 19:48 PM
#492
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002



It takes 3 shots, which is a long time for a tank to be hanging around someones base, however its very easy to a drive by when the thing dies in 1. The entire point is that you dont have to be getting facerolled to get your ambulance picked off, they can just show up, shoot it, and scram, even if its an otherwise even match
give the usf hq a 20 % damage reduction aura for the ambulance only ?
28 Aug 2019, 19:50 PM
#493
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 602

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 11:18 AMJilet


Agreed they can be quite frustrating in team games but there way way many issues in team games. Like not being able to move infantry due to napalm spam, B-4 203mms , LeFH spam, Stuka zu Fuß rush etc.

If you give bunkers pop-cap its fine to me since i do not use it anyways but medics must be provided by the base then.


The bunker would only get a popcap price when installing the HMG42, not when you get medics.

At least, IMO.

Same with fighting position ofc. The position itself doesn't take popcap, the HMG upgrade would.

It could be less than an actual HMG due to obvious limitations, but it shouldn't be a freebie.
28 Aug 2019, 19:52 PM
#494
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1554



The bunker would only get a popcap price when installing the HMG42, not when you get medics.

At least, IMO.


Im fine with this too, honestly. Would be nice just to have US ambulance reworked in some way

Like a choice to lock immobile for rest of game, removes popcost, can no longer be moved, etc.
28 Aug 2019, 20:03 PM
#495
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 346



The bunker would only get a popcap price when installing the HMG42, not when you get medics.

At least, IMO.

Same with fighting position ofc. The position itself doesn't take popcap, the HMG upgrade would.

It could be less than an actual HMG due to obvious limitations, but it shouldn't be a freebie.


I am fine with that too.
29 Aug 2019, 06:14 AM
#496
avatar of come on let's go

Posts: 125





What are you on about? The Hetzer is 0CP and it's always been 0CP.

Man IDK.
I just saw something that says it's * CPs.
It has been like that from the start.
Maybe it changed recently.


29 Aug 2019, 08:37 AM
#497
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 786 | Subs: 6

Heavy Tanks seem way too good now, especially in team games with lots of indirect being thrown around. Other things already wound infantry so then a heavy comes up and murders an already wounded squad with so much consistency.

Heavies can also duel AT guns with much less risk and more consistency then before.
30 Aug 2019, 06:44 AM
#498
avatar of Stark

Posts: 562 | Subs: 1

Heavy Tanks seem way too good now, especially in team games with lots of indirect being thrown around. Other things already wound infantry so then a heavy comes up and murders an already wounded squad with so much consistency.

Heavies can also duel AT guns with much less risk and more consistency then before.


Well, Heavies still has CP requirement. 9 CPs is easy to reach on 1v1 but not so quick on 4v4. Lack of CP requirement led into a TigerAce spam in higher modes. On the other hand if we keep old CP requirement of 13 CPs, we will rarely see them on 1v1 and 2v2 where better map control allow player to rush for it before enemy who is on back foot doesn't have a wall of AT guns and tank destroyers (which is simply fair). Current solution is a middle ground. Maybe if they weren't called but simply build from a tech structure could delay them for extra 45 sec.
30 Aug 2019, 19:16 PM
#499
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1983 | Subs: 3

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - VERSION 1.3

This will likely be the last mod preview for this patch. The mod preview feedback has been useful, and we feel the update is in a Good Spot™. There will be some minor adjustments prior to the official release.

We will be monitoring some of the more nuanced changes in this patch post-release. We feel certain items will be easier to assess once the update has been live, and more players are testing the changes. Problem items will be addressed in a follow-up patch.

We are planning to release the update in approximately two weeks time.

Ostheer
Leichte Mechanized Kompanie
To encourage T2 strategies and reduce the power of skiping tiers, we are moving the manpower discout for Ostheer tech to the Leichte Mechanize Kompanie.
- Manpower cost further reduced from 150 to 100

Battlephase 2
- Reverted manpower change from 150 back to 200

Tiger
The Tiger is having its AOE reduced on the outer edges to reduce it's killing power and to compensate for the tank's high accuracy against infantry.
- Far AOE from 0.175 to 0.15
- Far distance from 3.5 to 3

Panzergrenadier G43
We are reducing the cost of this upgrade to better reflect its current performance and trade-offs with the Panzergrenadier StG 44.
- Munition cost from 60 to 50

StuG Ausf. E
The StuG E is being moved into tech like other call-in vehicles. We have reduced the amount of CPs to compensate to encourage teching.
- CP requirement from 7 to 5
- Now requires Battlephase 2



OKW
Starting Resources
OKW is having some of its manpower changes reverted. The previous changes impacted their early game too much with the price increase on Volksgrenadiers.
- Manpower changes from version 1.2 reverted from 300 to 320

Schwerer Panzer Headquarters
We have adjusted the cost of the Schwerer Panzer HQ to allow Obersoldaten to arrive earlier and give the unit more time to gain veterancy.
- Initial cost from 100/80 to 100/60
- Panzer Authorization cost from 100/40 to 100/60

Raketenwerfer
The Raketenwerfer is having its price increased slightly to better reflect its new performance. Population has been adjusted for the additional soldier to match other anti-tank guns and reduce the upkeep on OKW.
- Cost from 270 to 290
- Population from 8 to 7

251 Flak Half-Track
We are reducing the smoke cost on the 251 Flak Half-Track to better reflect how integral this ability is for the unit's survival.
- Smoke cost from 35 to 25; veterancy reduces smoke cost from 25 to 15

King Tiger
The King Tiger is having it's fuel cost reduced to better reflect it's performance and trade-offs when compared to other heavy tanks.
- Fuel cost from 280 to 270

Fallschirmjager
Fallschirmjager are having their second set of FG-42s locked behing the Panzer HQ to reduce the unit's impact when it first arrives, while retaining a relative timing with their pre-patch changes in terms of firepower.
- Second set of FG-42s now requires the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters.

Panzerfusiliers
To better reflect their performance and the changes to OKW's starting manpower, we are reducing the unit's manpower and upgrade cost slightly.
Manpower cost from 280 to 270; reinforce unchanged
G43 cost from 90 to 80

Hetzer
The Hetzer is having its veterancy requirements further reduced to reflect it's main target being infantry. With the changes to the Schwerer's cost, it has been locked behind Panzer Authorization.
- Veterancy requirements further reduced to 1240/2480/4960/6440/8370
- Now requires Panzer Authorization

Assault Artillery
Previously, Assault Artillery was too random and the shells took too long to come down. The new changes should force units in the center of the ability to move, or risk being hit.
- Shell count from 25 to 30
- Now drops 10 of its 30 shells in a 25m radius within the target zone, reducing scatter.
- Artillery Shell delay from 0.75/1.25 to 0.5/0.75
- Mortar smoke delay between shells from 0.75 to 0.375



UKF
Bofors
The recent changes to the Bofors impacted the unit's ability to hold back attacking infantry. The recent changes are to allow the Bofors to stop charging infantry squads that attempt to enter the Bofor's range.
- Suppression from 0.0006 to 0.0015
- AOE from 1 to 1.5
- Nearby suppression radius from 0.8 to 1
- AOE suppression from 0.1 to 0.75
- Target suppressed suppression multiplier from 0.5 to 1

Sniper
The recent changes in aim-time had the effect of speeding up the sniper's rate of fire. His rate of fire is being slowed to be slightly behind the Ostheer's Sniper to reflect the smaller squads he fires on, and his ability to harm light vehicles when supported.
- Sniper winddown from 4 to 5.25

Comet
We have slightly reduced the scatter of the Comet to improve its anti-infantry firepower at range.
- Comet scatter from 5.5 to 5.25

Churchill
Due to its extrmely high health and decent armor, we are increasing the Churchill's population and fuel cost to better reflect its performance.
- Population from 18 to 19
- Fuel cost from 160 to 165

Advanced Fortifications
The previous changes were too harsh on this upgrade. We are toning back some of the cost to better reflect its power.
- Fuel cost from 20 to 10



USF
Riflemen Flares
The cost of flares is being matched to those used by units such as Panzerfusiliers to incentivise its use.
- Cost from 40 to 35

M21 Mortar Half-Track
We are slightly toning back the nerf to Whie Phosphorous from the M21 to have more impact on units that remain within the smoke.
- White Phosphorous damage frequency from 0.6 to 0.5

M4 Sherman 105mm Dozer
To allow players to purchase this unit when they have teched up to Major, we are reducing the CP cost. Additional CP changes will take effect when the patch hits live.
- Now requires Major tech
- CP requirement from 10 to 7; will be reduced to 6 for live patch

M26 Pershing
We are toning back some of the Pershing's AOE which previously allowed it to destroy most infantry squads in two hits. In return, the cost of HVAP is being reduced to give the Pershing an edge against vehicles.
- Far AOE damage from 0.225 to 0.175
- Mid AOE from 0.4 to 0.375
- HVAP shot from 60 to 50



Soviets
Support Weapon Kompaneya(T2)
We are slightly increasing the price of T2 to reduce the rush into T70 and stronger Conscript builds.
- Fuel cost from 10 to 15

Assault Guards
Due to popular demand, we are giving Assault Guards Thompson SMGs. This should increase the unit's firepower and better reflect the cost and timing of the Half-Track Assault Group.
- Comes equipped with 3 Thompson submachine guns in addition to their SVTs.
- PPSh-41s removed.

IS-2
With its high armor, we felt the IS-2 should have reduced killing power against infantry while remaining relatively consistent in terms of accuracy.
- Far AOE from 0.2 to 0.175
- Far AOE distance from 3.5 to
30 Aug 2019, 19:21 PM
#500
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

Code
Churchill
Due to its extrmely high health and decent armor, we are increasing the Churchill's population and fuel cost to better reflect its performance.
- Population from 18 to 19


In live 16pop. Long live the supremacy of heavy tanks okw :gimpy:
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