Login

russian armor

September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

  • This thread is locked
PAGES (30)down
23 Aug 2019, 10:52 AM
#321
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 617

wait aoe heal ? But didn’t it work only for units inside the half truck ?


Yeah tight rope tested, took quite some time too.
Too slow, too much clicks(more than crew repairs), limited to 2 squad, and takes up precious early fuel.

Hardly a buff, but a creative option. Probably to use in 4v4 games outside of top pro players
23 Aug 2019, 11:34 AM
#322
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

ok aoe wasnt the appropriate term... but its a mass heal method that works better than the medics...

but of course ost now has 3 healing options
1. veteran squads
2. bunker medics
3. sdkfz 251

what healing options does sov have
1. base medics
2. ???
3. ???
23 Aug 2019, 11:37 AM
#323
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1473 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 11:34 AMgbem
ok aoe wasnt the appropriate term... but its a mass heal method that works better than the medics...

but of course ost now has 3 healing options
1. veteran squads
2. bunker medics
3. sdkfz 251

what healing options does sov have
1. base medics
2. ???
3. ???

but of course ost now has 4 healing options
1. veteran squads
2. bunker medics
3. sdkfz 251
4. medical supplies drop - in several commander

what healing options does sov have
1. base medics
2. Airborne retreat point - in one commander
3. ???

Even if you remove the new HT, the Wehrmacht already exceeded the advice in healing, but instead of giving healing to the Soviets, the Wehrmacht was given HT - a magnificent and logical move.
23 Aug 2019, 11:39 AM
#324
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1



I really feel like this is a missed opportunity to finally give the Riegel mine a viable entry into the game. I know this would take a bit more work, but if you swapped the Schu with the Riegel at vet 1, then it would start to see use and you could clean up some of the most obsolete Ost Commanders, by swapping the Riegel ability with something that might actually see use.


"Let's buff Jaeger Armor." :bananadance:

I think it could be looked into if Jaegar Armor is given an equally usele- euhm seldomly used ability.
23 Aug 2019, 11:45 AM
#325
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341


what healing options does sov have
1. base medics
2. Airborne retreat point - in one commander
3. ???


airborne doesnt heal... it just allows reinforce...

the real doctrinal soviet healing options are

1. commissar
2. urban defense bases

but of course all factions must be measured irrespective of doctrines... doctrines are there to add flavor not viability...

of course some say the lack of mass healing is the soviet`s "weaknesses".... if that is the case then i want the grenadier buffs to be reverted so that wehrmacht retains its "weakness" of squishy squads...
23 Aug 2019, 11:47 AM
#326
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3162 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 10:52 AMmrgame2


Yeah tight rope tested, took quite some time too.
Too slow, too much clicks(more than crew repairs), limited to 2 squad, and takes up precious early fuel.

Hardly a buff, but a creative option. Probably to use in 4v4 games outside of top pro players

it didn't take any of the other options away tho. It's kinda just a bonus extra way.

This will probably be pretty cool for the new pgrens actually. Seems almost tailored to that since they lost their self heal.
It's not meant to replace your existing healing just make infield healing a bit more flexible withiut completely bunkering down.
23 Aug 2019, 12:00 PM
#327
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6286 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 11:45 AMgbem


airborne doesnt heal... it just allows reinforce...

the real doctrinal soviet healing options are

1. commissar
2. urban defense bases

but of course all factions must be measured irrespective of doctrines... doctrines are there to add flavor not viability...

of course some say the lack of mass healing is the soviet`s "weaknesses".... if that is the case then i want the grenadier buffs to be reverted so that wehrmacht retains its "weakness" of squishy squads...

That is inaccurate it does heal

Airborne Rally Point

Available at 2 Command Points
Costs 100 manpower and 15 fuel.
Reveals enemies on the mini-map in 60m area around it.
Can reinforce units in friendly territory
Can request a Medical Airdrop at the target position for 20 munitions. Heals all nearby infantry when picked up.
When the Mechanized Armor Kampaneya is deployed, it can act as a Forward Retreat Point; only 1 can function as a Forward Retreat Point at a time.
320 Health, 5 armor.

The whole argument that Ostheer have an advantage because of "more" healing option hold little water. One of the best healing option remain available to Tommies.
23 Aug 2019, 12:05 PM
#328
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:00 PMVipper

That is inaccurate it does heal

Airborne Rally Point

Available at 2 Command Points
Costs 100 manpower and 15 fuel.
Reveals enemies on the mini-map in 60m area around it.
Can reinforce units in friendly territory
Can request a Medical Airdrop at the target position for 20 munitions. Heals all nearby infantry when picked up.
When the Mechanized Armor Kampaneya is deployed, it can act as a Forward Retreat Point; only 1 can function as a Forward Retreat Point at a time.
320 Health, 5 armor.

The whole argument that Ostheer have an advantage because of "more" healing option hold little water. One of the best healing option remain available to Tommies.


and yet outside of doctrines what do the soviets have for healing? (none)
23 Aug 2019, 12:11 PM
#329
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6286 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:05 PMgbem


and yet outside of doctrines what do the soviets have for healing? (none)

I simply corrected your inaccurate claim.

If you want to claim that "more" is somehow better go ahead...
23 Aug 2019, 12:32 PM
#330
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:11 PMVipper

I simply corrected your inaccurate claim.

If you want to claim that "more" is somehow better go ahead...


perhaps thats because i dont use the airborne cmdr or the NKVD cmdr that often... otherwise

1. the base bunker still exists and basically grants field medics like the HQ medics... unsure on how they compare to each other though

2. ost has the extra option of healing using vet 1 abilities

3. ost now has a 3rd option of using the SDKFZ

meanwhile sov basically has 1 healing option and thats it...
23 Aug 2019, 12:38 PM
#331
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6286 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:32 PMgbem


perhaps thats because i dont use the airborne cmdr or the NKVD cmdr that often... otherwise

1. the base bunker still exists and basically grants field medics like the HQ medics... unsure on how they compare to each other though

2. ost has the extra option of healing using vet 1 abilities

3. ost now has a 3rd option of using the SDKFZ

meanwhile sov basically has 1 healing option and thats it...

And that actually give them then an advantage?


1) The tripwire flares/ Target size reduction as vet 1 for conscripts is allot better the medic kit grenadiers get.
2) Medic is one of the worse healing out there and cost munition. It is only good for infatry doc and it should actually have longer CD.
3) heal need lots micro and is slow and the M5 ability is far better

Now can we pls stop this in feedback tread?
23 Aug 2019, 12:45 PM
#332
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

Give the M5 healing like the 251, that halftrack isn't used for its reinforcement role either.

Yeah, squads can shoot out of it, but I don't see how that would break the game if you add healing, assuming that only happens out of combat.
23 Aug 2019, 12:48 PM
#333
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:38 PMVipper

And that actually give them then an advantage?


1) The tripwire flares/ Target size reduction as vet 1 for conscripts is allot better the medic kit grenadiers get.
2) Medic is one of the worse healing out there and cost munition. It is only good for infatry doc and it should actually have longer CD.
3) heal need lots micro and is slow and the M5 ability is far better

Now can we pls stop this in feedback tread?


1. tripwire flares are quite good for sure... but vet 1 heals are pretty good aswell... overall pre gren buff cons and grens have a nice balance to them... this patch however breaks that balance...

2. meanwhile the manpower cost of 250 for field medics essentially mounts up to a squad in a faction that bleeds MP like crazy when starting with a T2 oriented/conscript based build...

3. heal is a vet 0 ability... the hanomag instead gets a schu mine at vet 1 while the M5 gets a blitz like ability that unlocks at vet 1... the 251 has the superior vet ability

ok we can stop talking about this once you stop contesting the idea of giving the soviets more nondoc healing options

Give the M5 healing like the 251, that halftrack isn't used for its reinforcement role either.

Yeah, squads can shoot out of it, but I don't see how that would break the game if you add healing, assuming that only happens out of combat.


that is actually one of the most useless traits for the M5 atm... mechanized infantry is essentially pointless in the lategame soo whereas the 251 still remains relevant with its newfound healing the m5 essentially becomes a meme considering how late it comes...
23 Aug 2019, 13:01 PM
#334
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1473 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:48 PMgbem


that is actually one of the most useless traits for the M5 atm... mechanized infantry is essentially pointless in the lategame soo whereas the 251 still remains relevant with its newfound healing the m5 essentially becomes a meme considering how late it comes...


M5 is needed, but only as M17 AA. Reconnaissance aircraft and Stuke strafe in almost every match.
23 Aug 2019, 13:18 PM
#335
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6286 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:48 PMgbem


1. tripwire flares are quite good for sure... but vet 1 heals are pretty good aswell... overall pre gren buff cons and grens have a nice balance to them... this patch however breaks that balance...

Grenadier changes are irrelevant to healing. Medic packs are inferior trip wire/RA reduction conscripts get end of story.

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:48 PMgbem

2. meanwhile the manpower cost of 250 for field medics essentially mounts up to a squad in a faction that bleeds MP like crazy when starting with a T2 oriented/conscript based build...

And the 60 munition for bunker make Ostheer have one less weapon and is more important than 100 manpower.

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:48 PMgbem

3. heal is a vet 0 ability... the hanomag instead gets a schu mine at vet 1 while the M5 gets a blitz like ability that unlocks at vet 1... the 251 has the superior vet ability

M5 is simply superior to 251, it more armor thus does not take damage from small arms and units can fire from it and has more DPS 66% long range.

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:48 PMgbem

ok we can stop talking about this once you stop contesting the idea of giving the soviets more nondoc healing options

If you want to claim that Soviet need more healing options you should try different arguments saying that Ostheer have "more" is not good enough argument. It a "grass is greener on the other side of fence argument. With the same logic Ostheer should have stock "free" AOE healing because UKF have it.

And once more so far I have simply corrected your claim that Soviet airborne point do not heal.

PLS move on.
23 Aug 2019, 13:37 PM
#336
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:18 PMVipper

Grenadier changes are irrelevant to healing. Medic packs are inferior trip wire/RA reduction conscripts get end of story.


grenadier changes mean they bleed less when shot at with HE fire... which significantly alters the sov-ost dynamic... it also means healing packs will be more useful since more models would be in partial health as opposed to full health

also with the new buffs im not entirely sure if the tripwire flare can OHK a grenadier model...

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:18 PMVipper

And the 60 munition for bunker make Ostheer have one less weapon and is more important than 100 manpower.

100mp on a faction that bleeds MP like crazy till midgame vs 60 muni for a faction that... though muni intensive... can play perfectly fine without bleeding muni (unlike sov T2)

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:18 PMVipper

M5 is simply superior to 251, it more armor thus does not take damage from small arms and units can fire from it and has more DPS 66% long range.


all of those are irrelevant for mechanized units... in this game mechanized units start to become obsolete once AT guns and lights come out... a point when tanks overtake the light vehicle phase dominated by the M3/UC/WC51 and later 222 M5 and sdkfz 251 (both flak and hanomag variants)... in reality the 251 is more of a support unit with the option to be a mechanized anti garrison truck that will live all the way till the T-70/luchs/aec/stuart is fielded...

at that point both the m5 and the 251 become support units... the M5 essentially is made to choose between being a worse reinforcement point or an AA gun while the SDKFZ 251 can be a much better reinforcement point that drops mines and has the option of getting a flamer for a breakthrough from the flanks...

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:18 PMVipper

If you want to claim that Soviet need more healing options you should try different arguments saying that Ostheer have "more" is not good enough argument. It a "grass is greener on the other side of fence argument. With the same logic Ostheer should have stock "free" AOE healing because UKF have it.

because weve been asking and attempting to justify more soviet healing options in different threads already... but instead of addressing the soviet healing situation the balance team decided to give ostheer more healing........ a faction with alot of healing options already


this is the equivalent to say... giving UKF even more healing options... why give UKF more healing options when its sov that needs them?


jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:18 PMVipper

And once more so far I have simply corrected your claim that Soviet airborne point do not heal.

yeah yeah but being doctrinal it remains irrelevant
23 Aug 2019, 13:44 PM
#337
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3927

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 12:05 PMgbem


and yet outside of doctrines what do the soviets have for healing? (none)
at least it's in doc imagine actually having a forward retreat point for osther :romeoHype:

btw GBEM vipper is not saying they should not have non doc healing, he is just correcting ur wrongful insights, i think he is ok to give another form of healing for soviet some way or another
23 Aug 2019, 13:46 PM
#338
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

at least it's in doc imagine actually having a forward retreat point for osther :romeoHype:


imagine soviet T2 actually competing without doctrines...

considering nobody even bothered to use this in a tourney highlights how bad it is lmao...
23 Aug 2019, 13:47 PM
#339
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3927

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:46 PMgbem


imagine soviet T2 actually competing without doctrines...
1 i was making a jk 2 why do u keep bringing up tier 2 ? does it have anything to do with my post ?

imagine if every post i said " does mobile defense actually exist ?"
23 Aug 2019, 13:53 PM
#340
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

1 i was making a jk 2 why do u keep bringing up tier 2 ? does it have anything to do with my post ?

imagine if every post i said " does mobile defense actually exist ?"


because there are sentiments here to buff ost "because it underperforms in tournaments"... yes these are very much viable sentiments... but there is another... id guess you could call it a subfaction (sov t2) that functions arguably worse than even ost... and yet gets some scrappy halfhearted buff while ost receives all the time in the spotlight

the 251 buff is a great example to this... weve been asking for soviet M5 buffs to give it healing aswell quite some time ago... especially since sov T2 absolutely needs field healing to offset some of its major deficiencies... but of course instead of give the M5 field healing the SDKFZ 251 is the one to recieve it instead... and though ostheer buffs are pretty neat... the blatant lack of attention the balance team is giving to the even more underperforming sov T2 is just complete bullcrap...
PAGES (30)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
Elite Invitationial Tournament

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • The British Forces flag [c.B] Guard2707
  • Soviets flag [c.B] Brosras
  • Oberkommando West flag 女性主意
  • Ostheer flag 101 Airborne Divison
uploaded by koreanmaphack

Board Info

127 users are online: 4 members and 123 guests
Stormjäger, davidmceod, Katzeres2, serg_codmod
190 posts in the last 24h
1227 posts in the last week
6968 posts in the last month
Registered members: 66227
Welcome our newest member, Katzeres2
Most online: 918 users on 27 Oct 2019, 01:03 AM