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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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23 Aug 2019, 13:54 PM
#341
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6263 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:37 PMgbem

...

At this point you are simply arguing with yourself and I have no intention to force Relic/MODers read pages of runt.

If in your opinion Soviet need another stock form of healing, I suggest you start a thread about explaining your reasoning. There is not such change in this Patch so this is not place for such a debate in this thread.
23 Aug 2019, 13:55 PM
#342
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:53 PMgbem


because there are sentiments here to buff ost "because it underperforms in tournaments"... yes these are very much viable sentiments... but there is another... id guess you could call it a subfaction (sov t2) that functions arguably worse than even ost... and yet gets some scrappy halfhearted buff while ost receives all the time in the spotlight

the 251 buff is a great example to this... weve been asking for soviet M5 buffs to give it healing aswell quite some time ago... especially since sov T2 absolutely needs field healing to offset some of its major deficiencies... but of course instead of give the M5 field healing the SDKFZ 251 is the one to recieve it instead... and though ostheer buffs are pretty neat... the blatant lack of attention the balance team is giving to the even more underperforming sov T2 is just complete bullcrap...
then cry to mod not me dude
23 Aug 2019, 13:57 PM
#343
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



Tell that to the non doc soviet vehicle rooster. Every time a axis soldier farts a soviet vehicle is destroyed. They are needlesly punished for it.

The weak soviet vehicles and low hp ost squads are there by design. Ost has doctrines for that just as soviets have for weapon upgrades.
I think this is a bad change.


What do vehicles have to do with 4 model mainline non doc infantry squads getting wiped too easily? You want to argue that a T70 is weak lol? Or a Su76 is weak and does not perform well vs Ostheer tier 3 units? You want to argue that the Su85 is bad?
23 Aug 2019, 13:59 PM
#344
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 13:54 PMVipper

At this point you are simply arguing with yourself and I have no intention to force Relic/MODers read pages of runt.

If in your opinion Soviet need another stock form of healing, I suggest you start a thread about explaining your reasoning. There is not such change in this Patch so this is not place for such a debate in this thread.


the point of my feedback isnt about the lack of healing in a vacuum... the point of my feedback is very much relevant to the balance team... and ill summarize it...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
make soviet T2 viable
23 Aug 2019, 14:00 PM
#345
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


but of course ost now has 4 healing options
1. veteran squads
2. bunker medics
3. sdkfz 251
4. medical supplies drop - in several commander

what healing options does sov have
1. base medics
2. Airborne retreat point - in one commander
3. ???

Even if you remove the new HT, the Wehrmacht already exceeded the advice in healing, but instead of giving healing to the Soviets, the Wehrmacht was given HT - a magnificent and logical move.


You seem to forget Ostheer has 4 models everything, soviets have 6 model everything. That is far better survivability. To be honest, soviet medics do suck and should get an increase in their healing properties. But to take up the pitchfork and cry Ostheer doesn't need these buffs, especially to Grenadier survivability is insane.
23 Aug 2019, 14:00 PM
#346
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917



What do vehicles have to do with 4 model mainline non doc infantry squads getting wiped too easily? You want to argue that a T70 is weak lol? Or a Su76 is weak and does not perform well vs Ostheer tier 3 units? You want to argue that the Su85 is bad?
he is obv saying the t34 does not have 200 armor even tho it costs 30 less fuel than a p4 :romeoMug:
23 Aug 2019, 14:02 PM
#347
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

if you think ostheer underperforms wait till you see stock soviet T2 builds... 4 grens + mg42 + pio vs 4 cons a maxim and a CE is absolutely NOT a fair fight... and note that the former costs 50 MP less (since soviet teching is more expensive)
23 Aug 2019, 14:04 PM
#348
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 14:02 PMgbem
if you think ostheer underperforms wait till you see stock soviet T2 builds... 4 grens + mg42 + pio vs 4 cons a maxim and a CE is absolutely NOT a fair fight... and note that the former costs 50 MP less (since soviet teching is more expensive)
GBEM nobody is saying other wise, u are not a victim and everyone in the forum is not against u

no need to spam that tier 2 is weak every post
23 Aug 2019, 14:52 PM
#349
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 336

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 14:02 PMgbem
(since soviet teching is more expensive)


No thats because OST is going T1 for that build. I agree SOV T2 is weak but considering Shocks/Guards at 2 CP and penals at T1 it seems a little fair.

I would gladly agree changing cons veterancy and flares.

>Split the cons vet3 RA between vet1 and vet3 (10/30 respectively) thus make them more viable early and scale easier
>Give the tripwire flare behind molotov
>Nerf the penal RA improve their PTRS vs tanks so they are glass cannons early but potent at unit later
>Improve the maxim suppression to vickers levels but nerf its pack/set up times.
>Reduce ZiS to 300 MP.

I guess this is more appealing to every SOV player.
23 Aug 2019, 15:23 PM
#350
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 14:52 PMJilet


No thats because OST is going T1 for that build. I agree SOV T2 is weak but considering Shocks/Guards at 2 CP and penals at T1 it seems a little fair.

I would gladly agree changing cons veterancy and flares.

>Split the cons vet3 RA between vet1 and vet3 (10/30 respectively) thus make them more viable early and scale easier
>Give the tripwire flare behind molotov
>Nerf the penal RA improve their PTRS vs tanks so they are glass cannons early but potent at unit later
>Improve the maxim suppression to vickers levels but nerf its pack/set up times.
>Reduce ZiS to 300 MP.

I guess this is more appealing to every SOV player.
hey guys how about actually reading the patch notes ?
23 Aug 2019, 15:31 PM
#351
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 14:52 PMJilet


No thats because OST is going T1 for that build. I agree SOV T2 is weak but considering Shocks/Guards at 2 CP and penals at T1 it seems a little fair.

and that is where the balance team continuously stumbles at... they dont seem to realize that the faction is currently reliant almost soley on T1 and ignore the fact that sov T2 remains unchanged since the days of its most glorious sub 45% winrates....

the balance team has been blindsided by T1 and doesnt see the problem with T2...

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 14:52 PMJilet

>Split the cons vet3 RA between vet1 and vet3 (10/30 respectively) thus make them more viable early and scale easier
>Give the tripwire flare behind molotov


tbh tripwire can stay on vet... what a T2 build needs is a reliable method of dealing damage

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 14:52 PMJilet

>Nerf the penal RA improve their PTRS vs tanks so they are glass cannons early but potent at unit later
>Improve the maxim suppression to vickers levels but nerf its pack/set up times.
>Reduce ZiS to 300 MP.

I guess this is more appealing to every SOV player.



this isnt how i would do this... instead i propose

heres how i would do my soviet rework

> satchels moved to combat engineers

T1 > centered around high quality infantry play

> penals priced to 280mp and become 6 man with volksgrenadier mosins and a normal frag grenade ala guards... renamed to strelki and given an AI upgrade that gives 2x DP-28

this way they cant bullrush and rape ostheer or OKW but remain relevant in the lategame as either an AI or AT squad

> sniper... stays the same

> new unit: tank hunters 4 man squad with sprint PTRS AT satchels and AT nades... absolutely no AI capability

T2 > centered around heavy firepower

> PM-1910 maxim HMG... starts out as an HMG with more defensive stats... MG34 suppression setup and arc... deathloop fixed by using a ghost crew (i believe someone was able to do this) maxim reduced to 4 man...

60 muni upgrade to SG-43 (DSHK model)/assault MG mode... increases damage significantly and reduces setup time by a large margin... but removes suppression


> PM-42.. a general change to mortars significantly increasing the AOE of all mortars but lowering the OHK/high damage radius... thus evening out damage in a similar way to heavy tank shells

> Zis-3 pretty much stays the same...
23 Aug 2019, 15:52 PM
#352
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 336

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 15:31 PMgbem



Pretty much can agree on those expect for CE satchel since they already have the demo charge. I definently agree problem of T2 lies in T1 and penals/maxim imbalance.
23 Aug 2019, 15:54 PM
#353
avatar of Joshua85
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 597



"Let's buff Jaeger Armor." :bananadance:

I think it could be looked into if Jaegar Armor is given an equally usele- euhm seldomly used ability.


I assume this is from a team game perspective right? Because I sure don't see this often in 1v1.

I also have a hard time thinking of a more seldomly used ability than the Riegel B-)
23 Aug 2019, 15:57 PM
#354
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 336

hey guys how about actually reading the patch notes ?


I read. Nothing on cons early. If you are considering T3 as early then what can I say :clap:
23 Aug 2019, 15:58 PM
#355
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 15:57 PMJilet


I read. Nothing on cons early. If you are considering T3 as early then what can I say :clap:
Conscripts are being adjusted to deal more reliable damage and have some capability of scaling into the late game by bleeding infantry at range when fighting from defensive positions.

Damage from 16 to 12
Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.757/0.659/0.556
Max slot weapons from 2 to 1; no impact on Conscript upgrades
Trip-Wire flares now have a 30 second cooldown
Orrah cost from 10 to 15
Molotov cost from 15 to 20; only affects Conscripts
Veterancy 1 now grants 0.92 received accuracy
Veterancy 2 +25% Molotov range replaced by faster Molotov throw speed
Veterancy 3 now grants +10% accuracy modifier
Veterancy 3 Received accuracy from 0.6 to 0.707

they already shifted vet 3 RA to vet 1, please actually read the patch notes, this was 3 years ago
23 Aug 2019, 15:58 PM
#356
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1018 | Subs: 1



I assume this is from a team game perspective right? Because I sure don't see this often in 1v1.

I also have a hard time thinking of a more seldomly used ability than the Riegel B-)


1 full commander slot for tank traps. :snfCHVGame:

Or just Osttruppen Reserves. :snfPeter:
23 Aug 2019, 16:00 PM
#357
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 336



Then I think I need to memorize all 6 years patch notes. Do you even belive cons are good vet1 ?
23 Aug 2019, 16:02 PM
#358
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 16:00 PMJilet


Then I think I need to memorize all 6 years patch notes. Do you even belive cons are good vet1 ?
yes i do believe they have a good vet 1, compare it with gren, volks, rifle or IS

only rifle or volks come close to RA + cheap AI mine+ flare vs either 2% more RA or at nades

gren still get the jk medical kits and IS get vision in cover

i say it's comparable or better than volks and rifle
23 Aug 2019, 16:34 PM
#359
avatar of Sully

Posts: 317 | Subs: 2

Medic chase range standardized to 20 for all base and forward structures


Something I haven't seen discussed, but does significantly impact team games are the changes to medics. Mainly the above change, which caps their radius of target acquisition to 20. Doing some tests on 2v2 maps where team mates share a base area, it seems that 20 is slightly too small even with perfect placement to reach the retreat points of both players. This might not sound like a big deal, but it is a huge hit to QoL, and it seems like it's not really necessary. I'd like the range upped to 25 and see how that feels.
23 Aug 2019, 17:01 PM
#360
avatar of Joshua85
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 597



1 full commander slot for tank traps. :snfCHVGame:

Or just Osttruppen Reserves. :snfPeter:


Yeah It was pretty retarded that they double slapped the osttruppen reserve with a double nerf, by both shortening the time of the ability and increasing the requirement of losses for a new unit. That made it go from decent to completely useless real quick :clap:
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