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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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14 Aug 2019, 19:37 PM
#21
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Interesting. I like many of the changes. Even the scott and pak howi ones. I love manually firing those two and being an Ost main, I'm not used to the long cooldowns. Can't wait to blast everything to shit provided that these cooldowns better fucking be good.

Volks only got a lousy 10mp cost increase? Very sad. Just remove the sandbags.

Wonder what the pgren g43s feel like now.
14 Aug 2019, 19:37 PM
#22
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711

About halftrucks (OST and SU) - they were designed to support units on battlefield, but they almost never builded. How about to add medic upgrade? With similar mechanic to USF medic car. It will increase their popularity and i hope we would see these usefull units more often.
14 Aug 2019, 19:45 PM
#23
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

this is my full review about the changes:

the ober tech change is point less they would basically be penal that comes a bit before tank comes out as they lack lmg and u ONLY GET THEM IN THAT TIER

volks changes still don't address the STG problem, changing to mp 40s and adjusting volks vet would be better

sturm still over burned with roles

Raketenwerfer 43 will still hit the worlds objects and lacks shield, use a normal at gun model, or better just copy paste the usf at-gun stats and make the camo have first srtike bonus at vet 1 (200% pen and acc for firsts hoot)

sturm officer rework doesn't have a points, at least make it like the soviet or osther one

vicker will still not suppress but it's a start

the buff to FF was uncalled for and we will see even more spam of them

the Churchill nerf still doesn't address the fact that it has the frontal armor of a p4 in the rear (180 rear armor)

at least add a 1/3 MP refund to emplacements

Jackson price increase still doesn't give it a weakness like other TD (flanking, speed,fixed turret, accuracy, etc)

i would rather remove pack howy auto fire but increase the barrage range to 160 and fire more shells x barrage so player input is rewarded, USF already has a mortar for auto fire role

rifle company changes will still not make it viable

very happy for the counter barrage buff finally having a role

hope the spotting scope changes doesn't count rotation as movement or it's dead

cp4 without any ai buff will be pretty useless as it was barely used with 0.8 reduction, 0.9 will be the nail in the coffin

maxim will still fail to suppress squad coming straight for it, buff the suppression nerf the set up time

the cons changes are welcome but again does not fix their early problem and penals being so much better

partisan changes still fail to address the enormous reinforce cost, allow cons to merge in to them

still no changes to penal while nerfing volks will upset the fine balance they had between each other

other changes are welcome tho

over all expect an increase in win rate for soviet and ukf and a decrease for okw
14 Aug 2019, 19:57 PM
#24
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 19:37 PMMaret
About halftrucks (OST and SU) - they were designed to support units on battlefield, but they almost never builded. How about to add medic upgrade? With similar mechanic to USF medic car. It will increase their popularity and i hope we would see these usefull units more often.


speak for yourself man, I consider halftracks to be a requirement and always have one up
14 Aug 2019, 20:00 PM
#25
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711

About Su-76, was decided to make barrage more consistent from terms of damage - good change, but it don't decide problem, that you can see SU-76 once in blue moon. Like old ostwind. It struggle (only softcounter) against mediums, but overkill against LV. Also against LV you have ptrs penals, or zis-gun if T2 and cons were choosed. They hardcounter LV more than enough.
I suggesting make from su-76 tool for infantry support and make it work like artillery piece not TD. It what it did historically - destroy bunkers and mg-nests, fight against vehicle was secondary role, not main. TD must become secondary role.
Add to SU-76 artillery mode - it get cone of fire and acts like leig or pak howi. In mode it stationary and can't move, need some time to pack up.
14 Aug 2019, 20:00 PM
#26
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

Not sure about some of these OKW changes. Splitting T4 is good but Obers without LMG34 upgrade are not really that meaningful. Just seems like making things too complicated.

Fallschirmjägers having 2 of their 4 FGs locked behind T4 is ridiculous and makes no sense to me whatsoever.
14 Aug 2019, 20:01 PM
#27
avatar of Sully

Posts: 389 | Subs: 2

Was really hoping for some meaningful QoL changes for the SturmTiger, or even a complete redesign. Has there been any discussion with returning its world piercing projectile property back now that its AOE profile is centered around health damage/suppression? It wipes so much less than the AVRE which has a turret and auto-reload.

Also, how about a usable vet 1 ability such as recon flare or long range smoke canisters?
14 Aug 2019, 20:04 PM
#28
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 439 | Subs: 1

Removal jagdtigers tie to tech please, completly unecessary consdiering the timing it arrives at.

Oh and are all call in heavies tied to having a existing schwere?
14 Aug 2019, 20:05 PM
#29
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17522 | Subs: 8

After reading all the changes for all factions:
14 Aug 2019, 20:08 PM
#30
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 20:00 PMMaret
About Su-76, was decided to make barrage more consistent from terms of damage - good change, but it don't decide problem, that you can see SU-76 once in blue moon. Like old ostwind. It struggle (only softcounter) against mediums, but overkill against LV. Also against LV you have ptrs penals, or zis-gun if T2 and cons were choosed. They hardcounter LV more than enough.
I suggesting make from su-76 tool for infantry support and make it work like artillery piece not TD. It what it did historically - destroy bunkers and mg-nests, fight against vehicle was secondary role, not main. TD must become secondary role.
Add to SU-76 artillery mode - it get cone of fire and acts like leig or pak howi. In mode it stationary and can't move, need some time to pack up.


The reason why you dont see a su76, is not because its bad persay, but is because the t70 is always a much, much better choice.
14 Aug 2019, 20:12 PM
#31
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3035

It'd be nice if they fixed the paratrooper support squad camo issue. I've already explained it in an old thread so here's the explanation and link.

I've noticed that paratrooper support squads with bazookas will often get revealed while in camo when models turn. This doesn't happen with any other squad that has camo and usually makes you miss out on the damage boost that they're supposed to get out of camouflage, or just get revealed when you don't want them to be through no force of your own.

I'm guessing this isn't intentional, but it's very unfortunate and makes the unit not be really able to function as intended.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/82369/paratrooper-support-squad-problem
14 Aug 2019, 20:13 PM
#32
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1000 | Subs: 1

It'd be nice if they fixed the paratrooper support squad camo issue. I've already explained it in an old thread so here's the explanation and link.

The issue was and is being investigated.
14 Aug 2019, 20:17 PM
#33
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3035


The issue was and is being investigated.

Nice, glad to hear it's being addressed. It's the only form of camo that seems to do that unintentionally.

Also, will airborne timed charges destroy LefH's now?
14 Aug 2019, 20:20 PM
#34
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3085 | Subs: 7

Fallschirmjägers having 2 of their 4 FGs locked behind T4 is ridiculous and makes no sense to me whatsoever.


That's because the FG 42s got buffed and Falls were changed to 2CPs. With 4x FG 42 that'd be really early for a semi-Obers squad. But if feedback proves they'd be fine with 4x FG 42 at that timing, we can change it (for example it could instead be tied to the first half of the SPHQ).
14 Aug 2019, 20:23 PM
#35
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 523

I'd really love to see Falls survivability changes rather than extra aggressive capability improvements or commondo/stormtrooper like camo.

And a Curchill limit of 2...
ddd
14 Aug 2019, 20:39 PM
#36
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Rifle company is still weak. Sandbags dont fit this commander at all, it should be some good on the move weapon upgrade for rifles instead to match aggressive theme.
14 Aug 2019, 20:51 PM
#37
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5214

Holy... Wow. A lot of great changes, some meh changes many unexpected and outside the box changes and some I'm definitely not sure of uet but I'd like to play test to before giving a proper point by point since many changes also impact other things. Looks pretty great on the whole though. Great work!
14 Aug 2019, 21:36 PM
#38
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 929

I really like the more cautious approach to this patch; a lot of small changes, rather than massive buff/nerfs affecting 5+ stats. If we can get more subsequent patches like this, it'll really help with fine tuning the game.

With that said, some of the changes stand out as "really strange" to me. I'll do a more detailed list in the faction specific threads covering the actual buffs/nerfs, but these changes seemed odd to me:

OKW
Sturm Offizier - what's the point of this unit? The buff aura made sense, although the retreat issue was annoying. Now it's just another squad, but it can't get upgrades?

UKF
Churchill Mk.VII - the pop cost wasn't the issue, it was the armor, as others have pointed out. +2 pop won't really change anything the unit's performance.

USF
M36 'Jackson' - +5 fuel isn't going to change/fix the problem.

OST
No panther changes?

14 Aug 2019, 22:03 PM
#39
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3085 | Subs: 7

I would just like to emphasize to everyone that the AOE and scatter changes on heavy tanks are somewhat WIP and we would really like some feedback on how they feel in real match environments.

The changes are meant to mimic the Brummbar AOE profile (large area of effect with health damage, but small kill radius) but at a reduced power level. Iconic features should still be there (IS-2 should still have the biggest AOE but also the biggest scatter, Pershing should still be the most effective, while Tiger and Tiger II should still be consistent) but the guns should now give much more reliable and predictable damage, forcing squads to retreat in 2-3 hits (up to 4-5 if they miss some shots) instead of being an RNG fest of either completely missing or wiping several models in one hit.


Replays would be great.
14 Aug 2019, 22:05 PM
#40
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1583 | Subs: 3

My first impressions from reading the patchnotes.

Good changes but would tweak further

- "Panzer Authorization must be repurchased if the Panzer HQ is destroyed and is required for all heavy tank call-ins."

One of the reasons why Spec Ops was such a popular choice is because losing your Schwerer as OKW is extremely punishing. I think Panzer Authorization should be a one-time purchase, with only the Flak having to be repurchased. What I mean:
- Cost of Schwerer from 100MP/80 in preview to 150MP/80.
- Panzer Authorization from 100MP/40 in preview to 50MP/40.
- NEW: Flak has to reactivated if you replace Schwerer and have upgraded Panzer Authorization. Costs 50MP/20.

- "Osttruppen Supply Drop - Manpower cost from 450 to 400"

I feel the bigger problem is that it comes too late. It comes at 4 CP when most light vehicles have already arrived on the map, with the possible exception of the T70. An MG34 at 4 CP is even more absurd. I feel the drop should be 3 CP like the AT gun in USF's Airborne Doctrine.

- "Command Panzer 4 - Aura damage reduction modifier from 0.8 to 0.9."

For the same cost as a P4, but worse AI and AT performance, you get a 10% damage reduction. It already wasn't the most popular option (atleast in 1v1), this makes it even harder to justify. I think it could use a further cost reduction to 110 fuel or a different compensation.

- Pgren/Stormtrooper G43 changes

Good changes, but possibly not enough. I would go a step further with the upgrade giving all 4 Pgren/Storm models a G43, while reducing the moving dps from 0,9+ to a more reasonable 0,8. Otherwise, if that still doesn't justify upgrading, a different approach could be giving upgraded Pgrens (and Storms) 50 sight, instead of 42. That way, even if performance is lacking, it would still give the upgrade a clear advantage in vision.

- Sturmoffizier changes

Great changes. Could also remove that weird drawback of forced retreat giving a 50% accuracy buff to nearby enemy squads, making it unusable against blobs.

Disagree with

- Fallschirmjäger FG42 buffs

Most changes to Falls seem great, but I don't think the FG42 buff is needed. FG42's already deal insane damage at all ranges, especially with veterancy, buffing their dps further could make them very frustrating to play against. I'd rather see some mild RA buffs, so you're not reliant on good model drop RNG for your Falls to perform.

Other suggestions for next patch

- Other officers

Here are some basic ideas to improve the other officers, besides the Sturm Offizier:



- Sturmpionier Schrecks

A reduction to Panzerschreck cost to 60 munitions, possibly make it not exclusive to Sweepers. I'm not exactly sure how it will work out, but not being able to retreat Raketen could make it more vulnerable to aggressive super light vehicles. Sturmpionier Panzerschreck being more accessible would give OKW another option to fend off these lights, so OKW doesn't have to deathblob in the early game, if patch does indeed make Raketen a worse option against super lights.

- Ostheer Mortar Halftrack Incendiary Shell

This ability is in a far worse state than the ISG's incendiary barrage ever was. It's a single flame shell with massive scatter that costs 45 munitions. It's sometimes advised to use this against Sim City, but even in that role I find it's a total waste of resources. Could get a similar treatment as ISG's incendiary barrage will get.

- Osttruppen Reserves

The same as normal Osttruppen except at 3 CP, more expensive and with a miniscule chance of them getting an LMG. This ability should really be looked at.


Anyway, preview looks great, many spot-on changes.
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