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Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

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18 Apr 2019, 17:43 PM
#1
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1954 | Subs: 3

Version 5.0 changes
GENERAL FACTION CHANGES
Soviet General Faction Changes

Conscripts
To improve the performance of Conscripts, while retaining their role as utility infantry that excel at shielding and supporting other units, we have added an upgrade to help them scale into the late game. The extra man and reduced reinforce cost will allow them to more effectively trade against opposing infantry while the veterancy bonus will help fresh Conscript squads gain veterancy.
- New squad upgrade available after the Mechanized Armor Kampaneya is deployed.
- Mobilized Reserves: Increases squad size by 1, reduces squad reinforce cost to 17 and increases veterancy gain by 20%. Takes up one weapon slot. Costs 50 munitions.

Conscript AT Grenade Package
- Fuel cost from 25 to 10.

M5 Half-Track
The M5 is receiving a small number of changes to improve its role as a support vehicle.
- Cost from 270/30 to 240/30
- M2HB Quad mount moving burst from 0.5 to 0.75
- M2HB Quad mount far accuracy from 0.1 to 0.125
- M2HB Quad mount burst duration from 1/5 to 1.5/2
- M2HB Quad mount Cost from 100 to 90

SU-76
The SU-76 is receiving a number of slight changes to improve its role against light and medium vehicles with only a slight reduction against heavy tanks.
- Accuracy from 0.05/0.035/0.025 to 0.05/0.04/0.0375
- Penetration from 200/190/180 to 180/170/160
- Rotation rate from 30 to 32

M42 45mm Anti-Tank Gun
The range on canister rounds is being reduced to increase infantry-based counterplay against groups of M42 ATGs.
- Canister range from 50 to 30.

Link to full patch notes:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245822/new-commander-preview-changelog#latest



Please provide your imput and feedback about these changes here!
18 Apr 2019, 17:51 PM
#2
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1360 | Subs: 3

Seems like someone liked my idea. PogChamp



18 Apr 2019, 17:56 PM
#3
avatar of Loliholic

Posts: 36

Permanently Banned
I dont like it tbh. On paper it might look like it gives them theoretical more dps with 1 more man and more staying power but they will still drop like flies and bleed the same with 1 more man needed to reinforce even if it went down. (down by 3mp? still need extra 17mp for a full squad. And they take the only weapon slot they had? Not to forget it comes too late and if i understood right it is not a global upgrade but 50mp per squad? Which seems kinda meh. Well i dont know, maybe its useful in 1v1. But i'd imagine ur cons will drop fast anyway when Volks get their stgs and ostheer LMG's and so on.

Other than that I am happy that Senpai balance finally acknowledged the problems.


E:Though now thinking it doesnt interfere with PPSH I guess? so u can have 7-man oorah ppsh cons and with rapid conscription. But the price seems high
18 Apr 2019, 18:03 PM
#4
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 555

Absolutely useless, bordering meme territory. Conscripts are not used because they are extemely cost ineffective and have bad scaling. This does not adress either issues. Conscripts become liability in late game and adding 7th man is no different than getting more squads from Rapid Conscription and it's usage (lack of it) already showed that's not working. No matter how much Cons you have they are still bleeding you instead of enemy.
Su-76 "buffs" are a joke territory too, it needs free barrages back or reload or both.
18 Apr 2019, 18:07 PM
#5
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3208 | Subs: 1

Looks fine except for the cons imo.

Theorycrafting: Cons won't be wipeable via small arms, especially at vet 3, they'll be great at crewing things but the DPS will be very subpar. I mean congratulations the cost of reinforce is lower but that's similar to how they are now, cheaper to throw into a grinder is still going into a grinder.

I think the way to go with cons would be remove some utility then give a weapon upgrade.
18 Apr 2019, 18:15 PM
#6
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1491 | Subs: 3

Grenade change is not bad, the rest is ridiculous, the Seventh soldier for one weapon slot is an absolutely disgusting idea. Now it will be useless seven people, they will not even be able to take a weapon to be really useful. I don `t know who came up with it, but this is a pseudo buff. It was a great idea - to give them more accurate Mosin with the 3rd veteranism, you can give them a sniper Mosin with the 3rd veteranism. But no, an absolutely terrible idea was invented.
18 Apr 2019, 18:20 PM
#7
avatar of blancat

Posts: 601

Cons buff is fine

plz nerf fucking OP guard rifle

He has to choose between PTRS and DP
18 Apr 2019, 18:26 PM
#8
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1234 | Subs: 12

Looks fine except for the cons imo.

Theorycrafting: Cons won't be wipeable via small arms, especially at vet 3, they'll be great at crewing things but the DPS will be very subpar. I mean congratulations the cost of reinforce is lower but that's similar to how they are now, cheaper to throw into a grinder is still going into a grinder.

I think the way to go with cons would be remove some utility then give a weapon upgrade.


One of the reasons weapon upgrades aren’t being considered is that the only weapons you can give them are SVTs. Sure the DP 28 doesn’t match LMGs, but you have a 6 man squad with cheap reinforce, high utility and reasonable veterancy that you will end up with very tedious LMG wars with Ostheer and it stacks well with their ability to build cover.

We’re seeing what can be done first with Conscripts to reinforce their support and ability to out attrition the enemy. We had other ideas, though, for the upgrade like a cover bonus to reinforce their role of the unit wanting to fight from cover late game and be a unit to inefficiently attack into without support.
18 Apr 2019, 18:28 PM
#9
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1378

Cons need LMGs - I think that 7 man con upgrade is just MP draining.
18 Apr 2019, 18:31 PM
#10
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 924 | Subs: 2

I think the way to go with cons would be remove some utility then give a weapon upgrade.

I mean, a mosin of extra dps is a mosin of extra dps. A model of extra durability is a model of extra durability.

Anyway, I'll give my reasons why extra models and cost reduction is better than a weappn upgrade.

1: Identity/uniqueness
Cons are obviously unique among mainlines in that they do not have access to weapon upgrades without commanders. A small part is at least keeping that small unique aspect. Also, back during the games release, 6 man squads were genuinely unique and an actual identifiable strength of each soviet unit. With the release of osttruppen, paras, and panzerfusiliers since then, this part of soviets/cons has kind of lost its exclusivity. Other factions can get similarly durable squads, and so cons lost that selling point. A 7th man at least brings that advantage back to the table.

2. Cons as a utility unit
The one thing that most people seem to agree that cons have as a strength is their utility. A weapon upgrade would probably shift this identity to that of a more generic mainline. Yes, they would still have utility, but they wouldnt be a squad thats about their utility anymore. More so, giving them a weapon upgrade would end up disincentiviszing the use of merge. Basically, the opportunity cost of using merge goes up since each con model is worth more combat power. An extra model and reinforce on the other hand incentivizes the use of merge. You save even more manpower when merging, and can merge more since you have more models to spare.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the extra model makes their construction time for sandbags faster. Also, for the few doctrines that have con repairs, itll also make them repair faster, as minor as all this is.

3. A reason to use them instead of penals
If we make cons a part of the dps race, then the choice between penals and cons becomes less meaningful. Unit with dps and some utility #1 (cons), or unit with a little more dps #2 (penals). Cons are something of a combined arms option becuase of their ability to merge and build cover. At grenades are the kind of thing you pair with a zis to fend off vehicles, while ptrs and at satchels are the "do it yourself" option. The 7th man upgrade and reduced reinforce caters more towards cons combined arms identity than a weapon upgrade would. And, as opposed to penals, who are supposed to operate and win by literally winning engagements, the con upgrade helps cons win not necessarily by making them win a given engagement, but by trading more efficiently that your opponent.
18 Apr 2019, 18:33 PM
#11
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1491 | Subs: 3



One of the reasons weapon upgrades aren’t being considered is that the only weapons you can give them are SVTs. Sure the DP 28 doesn’t match LMGs, but you have a 6 man squad with cheap reinforce, high utility and reasonable veterancy that you will end up with very tedious LMG wars with Ostheer and it stacks well with their ability to build cover.

We’re seeing what can be done first with Conscripts to reinforce their support and ability to out attrition the enemy. We had other ideas, though, for the upgrade like a cover bonus to reinforce their role of the unit wanting to fight from cover late game and be a unit to inefficiently attack into without support.


With such changes, they still remain for the same purpose - to throw an anti-tank grenade, with only seven people, they will do it more reliably.
18 Apr 2019, 18:40 PM
#12
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1378

Late game Cons bleed allot while opposing unit receive very little damage in return.
18 Apr 2019, 18:40 PM
#13
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

Excellent changes 5.0 .

And.... when nerf tank super lategame okw?


:gimpy:ukfukfusfusfsovietssoviets:gimpy:
18 Apr 2019, 18:49 PM
#14
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 924 | Subs: 2

Late game Cons bleed allot while opposing unit receive very little damage in return.

Sounds like reducing their reinforce cost and giving them an extra mosin of dps can help a little bit with that.
18 Apr 2019, 18:50 PM
#15
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1234 | Subs: 12

Remember, you don’t need to retreat at 1 man if people think they will bleed more than before. And six dead cons is typically a wiped out squad.

Also:

5 Conscripts no upgrade: 100

6 Conscripts upgrades: 102
18 Apr 2019, 18:59 PM
#16
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1491 | Subs: 3

This is absolute nonsense. This is a T4 update, you get the 7th person to replace the gun slot, but at this time the Germans have a veteran PanzerGrenadiers, Folks, OberSoldiers. And you think that the 7th person compensates for this? Bullshit, I just have batthert from this useless change.
18 Apr 2019, 19:12 PM
#17
avatar of Surfer

Posts: 20

I don't really have an opinion about the conscripts, but I have to say that canister shot m42 became a meme right now, I'm pretty sure it's the same range as grenade, I think 30 is too small, 40 should be just right
18 Apr 2019, 19:12 PM
#18
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4490

I still feel like one of the unique markers of the Soviet Army, the mass deployment of Submachine Guns, is completely missed in CoH2. Most of the time you'll play the whole game without a single SMG in your whole army. I've long advocated for Conscript PPSh's for that reason and because it would enforce the dynamic of Grenadiers Long (LMG) - Conscripts Short (SMG).

There is an icon in the game files that resembles the Conscript's icon, but with crossed PPSh's instead of Mosins. I think that could be worked into the game somehow, either to show a distinct unit or to show that they've received the global PPSh upgrade (as opposed to the doctrinal upgrade/won't mask objects the upgraded cons have picked up).
ddd
18 Apr 2019, 19:52 PM
#19
avatar of ddd

Posts: 520 | Subs: 1

Not only this upgrade comes later than ppsh, its also weaker. And ppsh was not enough already to make cons viable. Weird change.
18 Apr 2019, 19:53 PM
#20
avatar of Thundrag

Posts: 17

I feel like the con upgrade should at t3 rather than t4
Also won't giving cons SVTs lock them out of the 7th man upgrade?
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