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New Commander patchnotes discussion thread

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20 Mar 2019, 21:01 PM
#41
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 2



Panzerfusies available from CP0, encourages them, but then volks MP40s in the same doctrine? Like why?



Idk, maybe some people can make MP40 + G43 combo work? Apart from that, not every single commander slot needs to be useful in every situation. On urban maps you still go volks and maybe for MP40, in other situations you go for fusis.... whatever the player prefers. I dont think thats an issue



Ranger at 350 manpower callin You're joking. Rangers are one of THE BEST anti infantry infantry squads in the game with their upgrade. Costing 10 more manpower than panzergrenadiers? OST is just supposed to pray to god their MG42 doesn't get outflanked or stolen at any part of the game? If so then kiss that matchup goodbye. Rangers did not need a buff, they needed to be in another doctrine.


I dont really see how a 50mp cost reduction is such a crazy broken buff. Their stats didnt get changed at all, and they are still 3 CP. It doesnt really make sense at all that rangers are significantly more expensive than units like Fallschirmjägers, Stormtroopers, Obersoldaten and shock troops
20 Mar 2019, 21:02 PM
#42
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2165 | Subs: 1

Panzerfusilliers

Cost from 290 to 250.
Now available at 0 CPs from the Regimental Headquarters.
Squad size from 6 to 5.
Grenade AOE distance from 0.75/1.5/2.25 to 1/2/3.
Can be upgraded with two Panzerschrecks for 120 munitions. Grants the ability to plant Teller mines, but disables ATG Grenades. Locks out G43s.
Recon package (G43 upgrade) now increases squad size from 5 to 6
.

That change would completly brake the game. Way too op.

It´s funny that this is even suggested because people complain about Volks as it is right now and the new Panzerfüsiliers would be 10x better because they scale way better than Volks. I also don´t like the idea of double shrecks on a cheap 5 men squad unless their Panzershrecks would be a clone of the USF Bazookas and not the Panzergrenadier ones.
20 Mar 2019, 21:02 PM
#43
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1538 | Subs: 1

For USF I'd like to see Smoke Artillery replaced with Fire Up! and have cost reduced and exhaustion debuff removed. It reduces overlap with Heavy Calvary and opens up more interesting options while also helping Rifle Company be less terrible. If it's too OP with with Rangers then it can be restricted to Riflemen only.
20 Mar 2019, 21:03 PM
#44
avatar of Retief

Posts: 28

Any chance of making the re rifle grenade upgrade increase vision range to 50 as well?
20 Mar 2019, 21:05 PM
#45
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 2

Panzerfusilliers

Cost from 290 to 250.
Now available at 0 CPs from the Regimental Headquarters.
Squad size from 6 to 5.
Grenade AOE distance from 0.75/1.5/2.25 to 1/2/3.
Can be upgraded with two Panzerschrecks for 120 munitions. Grants the ability to plant Teller mines, but disables ATG Grenades. Locks out G43s.
Recon package (G43 upgrade) now increases squad size from 5 to 6.

That change would completly brake the game. Way too op.


Fusiliers got worse base dps, no sandbags, no cover/garrison denial tool
20 Mar 2019, 21:06 PM
#46
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2165 | Subs: 1

I'm sorry but this looks just like last commander patch. The overall power ceiling of doctrines is completely unchecked in comparison to anything pre last revamp.

Panzerfusies available from CP0, encourages them, but then volks MP40s in the same doctrine? Like why?

Ranger at 350 manpower callin You're joking. Rangers are one of THE BEST anti infantry infantry squads in the game with their upgrade. Costing 10 more manpower than panzergrenadiers? OST is just supposed to pray to god their MG42 doesn't get outflanked or stolen at any part of the game? If so then kiss that matchup goodbye. Rangers did not need a buff, they needed to be in another doctrine.



Agree 100%.
20 Mar 2019, 21:08 PM
#47
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3700 | Subs: 1


I dont really see how a 50mp cost reduction is such a crazy broken buff. Their stats didnt get changed at all, and they are still 3 CP. It doesnt really make sense at all that rangers are significantly more expensive than units like Fallschirmjägers, Stormtroopers, Obersoldaten and shock troops


Falls are glass cannon, obers arrive way later, can't say much about storms, and shocks should probably cost more considering they can 1v2 any stock axis squad currently. Like just basing this off manpower comparisons, pgrens should be far cheaper now. IMO it should make sense rangers are far more expensive. No axis squad can 1v1 rangers when they're upgraded. The only thing that can hold them back in a 1v1 is gas grenade.
20 Mar 2019, 21:12 PM
#48
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 2



Falls are glass cannon, obers arrive way later, can't say much about storms, and shocks should probably cost more considering they can 1v2 any stock axis squad currently. Like just basing this off manpower comparisons, pgrens should be far cheaper now. IMO it should make sense rangers are far more expensive. No axis squad can 1v1 rangers when they're upgraded. The only thing that can hold them back in a 1v1 is gas grenade.


the performance of pgrens is a completely different topic, dont you think? And I disagree with Obers coming later, at 3 CP you should have the t4 already built unless you went for mechanized, in which case t4 isnt the best idea anyway
20 Mar 2019, 21:17 PM
#49
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3700 | Subs: 1



the performance of pgrens is a completely different topic, dont you think? And I disagree with Obers coming later, at 3 CP you should have the t4 already built unless you went for mechanized, in which case t4 isnt the best idea anyway


I mean in 1v1, you could be at 8 CPs before T4 was up. That allowed for the ostwind callin meta back post june 2016 patch. 3 CPs is like the 5-6 minute mark roughly. Yes pgrens are heavily different because of how the squad works.
20 Mar 2019, 21:20 PM
#50
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1306 | Subs: 2



True, that doctrine really need some love.



But calliope and an urban commander focus is a bit contradicting.



Not precisely, being a tougher Rocket Artillery, you can do cheeky things like use the Commander Smoke to cover for it as it barrages enemy positions very close to their base and stuff.
20 Mar 2019, 21:59 PM
#51
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 447

I think rifle satchel could work bit better than re riflenades but thats just my point of view.

As for rangers,i still think they could use additional weapon upgrade choice, like tank hunter kit, simular to support paratrooper one or lmg.
20 Mar 2019, 22:11 PM
#52
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2165 | Subs: 1

I just checked Grand Offensive and as I suspected it´s too good.

- Minute 0 snares on the Füsiliers so no more M3 or UC abuse, that´s a HUGE plus

- Panzerfüsiliere are not better than Volks in early game but they get way better as the game progresses, scaling way better than Volks, why would I ever build Volks?

- Going Mech is not punished by not having adequate infantry in late game anymore because you have vet 4-5 füsiliers that hold their own against any Allied infantry. That used to be the main weakness of OKW not going T4 in the past if they went Spec Ops.

- Tiger Call-In is like the Command Panther OP in 1v1 because it´s a braindead strategy to go a combination of Luchs-Puma or even Stuka into call-in Tiger
20 Mar 2019, 22:27 PM
#53
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3242

If Urban Assault gets the Dozer Upgrade, could Mechanized lose it? This is a good opportunity to move some stuff out of the overloaded commanders without scrapping it entirely.

Some Overwatch stuff moving to Grand Offensive would also be neat.
20 Mar 2019, 22:36 PM
#54
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15651 | Subs: 7

About OKW P4 for ost, what kind of vet it has?
Because if its ost vet, then I can see this tank becoming batshit OP easily with 30% armor bonus for that 234 armor.
20 Mar 2019, 23:13 PM
#55
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2165 | Subs: 1

Soviet doctrine:

- healing is bugged, you cant heal when the doctrine is equipped
- Dshk seems good now
- SVT drop seems bugged too, Conscripts pick up the SVTs but don´t actually get them, same for Engineers
- Airborn Guards are ok, not an interesting unit though, feels very generic, why not give them some sort of ppsh upgrade + camo?
20 Mar 2019, 23:27 PM
#56
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 5

- SVT drop seems bugged too, Conscripts pick up the SVTs but don´t actually get them, same for Engineers


Do they keep all their Mosins or do 3 of them get no weapon model?
20 Mar 2019, 23:28 PM
#57
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2165 | Subs: 1



Do they keep all their Mosins or do 3 of them get no weapon model?



They keep the Mosins.
20 Mar 2019, 23:37 PM
#58
avatar of Musti

Posts: 201


Panzerfusilliers

Cost from 290 to 250.
Now available at 0 CPs from the Regimental Headquarters.
Squad size from 6 to 5.
Grenade AOE distance from 0.75/1.5/2.25 to 1/2/3.
Can be upgraded with two Panzerschrecks for 120 munitions. Grants the ability to plant Teller mines, but disables ATG Grenades. Locks out G43s.
Recon package (G43 upgrade) now increases squad size from 5 to 6.

Can we just appreciate how terrible of an idea this is?
Penal-level infantry for 250MP and 90 muni? no tech-delay or locking yourself out of team weapons?
0CP mainline with grenades and snares? no tech required?
Volks price and near-performance but with harder scaling?
Schrecks on a 5-man squad? Nevermind 2xSchrecks on a SPRINTING 5-mand squad? I thought we were over ideas like this when we took away them from Volks
I'm not even going to comment on giving them Tellers

Rest of the changes looks rather interesting, but this... even if it's just a test and nothing is final.
20 Mar 2019, 23:58 PM
#59
avatar of Retief

Posts: 28

Also, any chance of replacing either the smoke raid doctrine or the m3 with a priest or sexton?
21 Mar 2019, 00:16 AM
#60
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 137

Just a few thoughts.

1) Double shreks on the new fusiliers I believe is not ideal. Limit it to 1, similar to the old Volksgrenadiers. At only 250mp per squad giving them the ability to get 2 shreks is just not a good idea IMO. This is looking like JLI change all over again, a massive, way over the top buff to a unit that doesn't exactly under-perform.
Another thing, if they still have the ability to snare it will be laughable as well. Imagine a squad that can not only do massive damage with 2 panzershreks BUT also it can snare. RIP any allied mediums.

If this change is made, the snare needs to be exclusive to volksgrenadiers so that players can't just simply ignore volks altogether for a call in CP0 unit. Also, I'll add that CP0 is an awful idea as well, all units outside of very weak units like Ostruppen should be at least 1CP, or at the very least start with a cooldown like IR pathfinders to so allied players don't immediately get overwhelmed by Fusilier spam.

Edit: I misread the patch notes and it says they can lay teller mines with the upgrade but it disables the snare. So I was incorrect, but still I believe this is an awful idea. Teller mines are already very strong, one squad should be able to have this much utility.


2) I like the cost reduction to rangers, I always thought they were too expensive.

3) I really like the RE rifle grenade upgrade. It doesn't feel OP and is a lot of fun to use, but pretty expensive to upgrade, though I understand why it's 60 munitions.

4) Maybe I'm blind, but when you equip an SVT does it actually change the gun model on combat engineers / conscripts? They still look a lot like Mosins.

5) I think the MP40 changes are alright, it will be nice to see assault grenadiers be useful again.

6) Changes to the Tiger Ace are welcomed, though now it's just a slightly better regular Tiger.

7) Not looking forward to OKW players being able to call in a KT and Tiger in the same game... that ain't gonna be fun in 4v4 lol
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