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28 Aug 2018, 17:33 PM
#81
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2703 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 14:49 PMStark
Can you add concrete bunkers for defensive commander or in fortification okw doctrine?



You know you can put hetzer T0 with requirement T1 and T2 just like m10s? It would bring more diversity play which WFA lacks. Ostheer and soviets has 2 late game tiers which allow you to pick medium armor or more heavy stuff. WF armies don't have it. Making more possibilities is a good way to make this game not boring.



yeah and cashes are the one of the basic things all factions have. Even soviets with their 6 men squads.

Wanna unboring stuff? You can add 223 Command Car, can capture territory and setup to lock it down, same as the PE from CoH.

Keeps the OKW unique while allowing them to get more resources without relying on the Wehrmacht to do it all of the time but of course, for a price. (A_Soldier proposal)



Yeah but in ostroopen commander and in defensive doctrine you have:
1. fortifications
2. ostroopen
3. call in artillery barrage

Just saying that Mobile defense and Osttruppen are more diffrent.


The Artillery abilities are very different.



Are you serious? How can you compare the Mobile Defense Osttruppen with the one from Osttruppen doctrine. One is a 3 CP callin, the other 0 CP. They have completely different purposes.

The 0 CP Osttruppen callin is the "heart" of the Osttruppen doctrine, it makes it completely unique. Or you think anyone picks it for the officer or the railway arty?? Now the new defense doctrine even shares ANOTHER ability (trenches, sandbags, barbed wire for grens and osttruppen) on top of that which makes it even worse but it doesnt matter that much.


Seriously if you had to decide between
1) buffed Stug E callin + Pak 43 + buffed sector arty and
2) Officer + supply drop + railway arty, what would you choose? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It's literally Osttruppen doc 2.0


I think somebody is triggered.

Osttruppen are a weak early game 6 man squad, they're basically the Wehrmacht Conscripts, there is nothing unique or special about them, they're just cheap spammable cannon fodder and nothing more, I don't see why it should be a big deal if 2 doctrines share 2 abilities, lots of them do.

And lastly, I suggested that the Osttruppen Doctrine be improved and even how to do it, so that's on the community dev team. And before you say that the Osttruppen Doctrine was already reworked, so was the USF Mech Company.
28 Aug 2018, 17:39 PM
#82
avatar of Stark

Posts: 559 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 16:51 PMHater

Alternative? So it's either turn garrison into HQ or build one? Not so urban now... Buffs are present in both variants or removed from buildable one, or?..



Pro tip. Download a mod and try it ;)
28 Aug 2018, 17:40 PM
#83
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2677

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 16:42 PMStark
But why make stormtrooper close combat squad equipt with mp40 IF there is already assualt gren squad design with the same purpose?


The new Stormtroopers are meant as Commando-like cloaking ambushers rather than sprinting Shock Troops and neither exist in the same doctrine.

The Hetzer however has a severe problem carving out its own niche: OKW has three nondoctrinal anti-tank vehicles already (Puma, JPIV, Panther). Between the JPIV and Puma OKW has specialist anti-tank pretty much covered.

For the Hetzer to work it'd need something those vehicles don't have. HE shells or smoke shells maybe, and if it's in Elite Armored it'd be a decent carrier for the tank commander.
28 Aug 2018, 17:42 PM
#84
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742 | Subs: 1

Vet 2 Assault Engineer change is good.

Shock Troops buffs seem appropriate.

45mm ATG gun changes are certainly valid. Long overdue.

Tank Traps being consolidated into Defensive Fortifications is a good change.

Honestly everything else from what I've seen and tinkered around with just seem like adjustments for adjustments sake (at best.) Whack-a-moling the metagame doesn't exactly accomplish much other than kick the can down the road. I feel like the effect of these changes is still going to be obliterating something out of the metagame and shoving something else into its place, with little to show for improving overall dynamic gameplay potential.

But then again, commander revamps were never going to accomplish much else. I do appreciate that there is more attention to specific abilities within commanders this time. (Although I fear there are unintended side effects of these changes. Which I further fear is kind of the point: unknowns to mix up the meta.)

Also Tank traps, though merged into Entrenching Tools, (not defensive fortifications) they still require 2 CPs. Since Entrneching tools is 1 CP, that might be something to look at.
28 Aug 2018, 18:21 PM
#85
avatar of Hater

Posts: 436

Pro tip. Download a mod and try it

Real pro would suggest to unpack it and inspect files ;)
28 Aug 2018, 18:35 PM
#86
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 922 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 16:42 PMStark
But why make stormtrooper close combat squad equipt with mp40 IF there is already assualt gren squad design with the same purpose?

Look if something overlaps doesn't mean it's bad - especially if it's put in diffrent spot and it's locked behind a commander.

Diversity doesn't bite, doesn't hurt and it's make game fresh if it's made and balance correctly

Because assault grenadiers aren't ambushers.

Honestly, the intent is to bring them closer to commandos in playstyle and performance.

Also, diversity solely for the sake of diversity is an issue in itself.
28 Aug 2018, 18:56 PM
#87
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

Hmmmmm... I've tried the British with the mod and I gotta say something that will be branded unpopular but here goes...

I feel that Sappers don't need to have Heat Grenades. Reason being a few things It overlaps with Boys AT Infantry Sections for one.

They are barely useful already with their Medic and Pyrotechnic upgrades removed. Now we want to give their only saving grace to non-doctrinal Royal Engineers? I get that having no readily available infantry-based snare sucks but giving a snare like that to the British will making them too strong overall. The combo of RE's HEAT + Infantry Section's Gammon Bomb will be devastating.

It will also render the Sniper's Critical Shot redundant. Who's going to use the AEC's snare anymore if you have HEAT nades? What becomes of the Firefly's Tulip rockets other than a munitions sink? The British are a faction that makes use of a lot of soft snares. Temporary debuffs. I like the addition of M7 mines for this reason.

It's consistent with the faction's original design. It rewards smart placement of those mines and assists Infantry Sections in successfully using Gammon Bombs and PIAT barrages, if they are fast enough. All this without absolutely screwing over any hope the Axis Player has to pull his vehicle away. Though if I'm honest, it would be nice in the stun lasted a few seconds longer.
28 Aug 2018, 19:15 PM
#88
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13678 | Subs: 7

I feel that Sappers don't need to have Heat Grenades. Reason being a few things It overlaps with Boys AT Infantry Sections for one.

They are barely useful already with their Medic and Pyrotechnic upgrades removed. Now we want to give their only saving grace to non-doctrinal Royal Engineers? I get that having no readily available infantry-based snare sucks but giving a snare like that to the British will making them too strong overall. The combo of RE's HEAT + Infantry Section's Gammon Bomb will be devastating.

It will also render the Sniper's Critical Shot redundant. Who's going to use the AEC's snare anymore if you have HEAT nades? What becomes of the Firefly's Tulip rockets other than a munitions sink? The British are a faction that makes use of a lot of soft snares. Temporary debuffs. I like the addition of M7 mines for this reason.

It's consistent with the faction's original design. It rewards smart placement of those mines and assists Infantry Sections in successfully using Gammon Bombs and PIAT barrages, if they are fast enough. All this without absolutely screwing over any hope the Axis Player has to pull his vehicle away. Though if I'm honest, it would be nice in the stun lasted a few seconds longer.


Well, AT IS itself is pretty awful design and its another gimmick, not something reliable.
Guards these boys are not.

And since UKF was stripped of all its popular gimmicks, no one will mind or miss an unpopular one that was barely useful.

Snipers crit shot still got that range advantage and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it nerfed into temporary effect? Its still only a gimmick, not a reliable ability.

Same thing with AEC. Its a gimmick.

UKF as a whole was built around these gimmicks and all of them were hard nerfed one way or another into irrelevance, so the less reliant UKF is on remaining gimmicks, the better for the faction overall.

Being consistent with factions original design isn't really an argument, given the fact that original design was reliant on not having certain mandatory tools, but having potent gimmicks to replace them and since these gimmicks were made close to useless, I see nothing wrong with pushing them under the rug.

Don't mention mines.
If mines were sufficient solution for anything, OKW wouldn't get fausts.
28 Aug 2018, 19:21 PM
#89
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1472 | Subs: 3


wasn't this bug only on this map and 1 time?
I thought so.

This bug was exactly on several maps, on Winter Rzhev exactly and I remember exactly on the Hamburg port, my friend had a bug on the other map.
2 of 18 Relic postsRelic 28 Aug 2018, 19:29 PM
#90
avatar of Andy_RE
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 49 | Subs: 18

Hey everyone,

These changes have just gone live to the mod in a quick update. More changes will be coming in the next version of the mod.

Sherman Dozer

-AOE distance from 0.325/0.75/5.5 to 0.425/1/6
-Distance scatter max from 4.8 to 2.5
-Now deals 50% damage on deflection; akin to Brummbar

M10

-HE ready aim-time from 1.75 to 1.25
-AOE Mid Distance from 1 to 1.5
-Fixed an issue where HE critcal would not apply to vehicles on deflection.
-Fixed an issue where HE shells could not be fired into the FOW.

Elite Vehicle Training

-Cost from 90 to 70

Commissar

-New Ability: Propaganda Barrage: Calls in a small barrage of 4 shells that is similar to Fear Propoganda. 45 munitions
-'Stand Your Ground' and 'Fight to the Death' cooldown from 60 to 30.

Stormtroopers

-MP40 reload frequency from 4/5 to 6
-MP40 reload from 2.8/3.5 to 2.8
-MP40 near cooldown from 0.325 to 0.15

-Can now place Booby Traps; similar to Jaegar Light Infantry
-Tactical Assault avaliable; on cooldown upon being deployed.
-G43 Package now grants 4 Panzergrenadier G43s; cost from 40 to 60. Disables Tactical Assault and locks out Panzerschreck.


This will be updated into the official thread on companyofheroes.com

Update: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245307/commander-revamp-preview-changelog/p1?new=1
28 Aug 2018, 19:45 PM
#91
avatar of SneakEye
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 462 | Subs: 3

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet, but why is the Churchill Crocodile added to a third commander when there are only eight commanders in total? New in Tactical Support and already in Special Weapons Regiment and Vanguard Operations.

I personally think Tactical Support could better use an ability like Raid Operation or Counter Battery.
28 Aug 2018, 20:00 PM
#92
avatar of Olekman

Posts: 61

In the preview mod, in German Infantry Doctrine, Relief Infantry was removed instead of Tactical Movement. This is an error, right?
28 Aug 2018, 20:03 PM
#93
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 19:15 PMKatitof


Well, AT IS itself is pretty awful design and its another gimmick, not something reliable.
Guards these boys are not.

And since UKF was stripped of all its popular gimmicks, no one will mind or miss an unpopular one that was barely useful.

Snipers crit shot still got that range advantage and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it nerfed into temporary effect? Its still only a gimmick, not a reliable ability.

Same thing with AEC. Its a gimmick.

UKF as a whole was built around these gimmicks and all of them were hard nerfed one way or another into irrelevance, so the less reliant UKF is on remaining gimmicks, the better for the faction overall.

Being consistent with factions original design isn't really an argument, given the fact that original design was reliant on not having certain mandatory tools, but having potent gimmicks to replace them and since these gimmicks were made close to useless, I see nothing wrong with pushing them under the rug.

Don't mention mines.
If mines were sufficient solution for anything, OKW wouldn't get fausts.


Sure, they have a ton of gimmicks that may not be very potent in the long run but I guess with the way things are nowadays, I like a little originality to remain. Ha. Yes, the whole idea of faction design isn't really an argument. Hard to make a proper one when you have someone begging you to watch the Royal Edinburgh Tattoo with them while you are trying to post. XD

I can't bring myself to agree with Sappers having HEAT nades and I'm saying this as a British Player. Either the concept of Boys AT Infantry Sections need to be replaced or give them something that makes them more interesting. Maybe even turn them into a passive ability that grants AT options to your Infantry like being able to upgrade with Boys AT Rifles and grant them HEAT Nades that way. Keep it doctrinal. It's just how I feel about it.

You may not like the idea of the AT mines but I most certainly do. I've been playing the British long enough to learn to live without a proper snare, especially since PIATs can home in on targets now. The lack of snare led me to use a lot of Mines. With this new M7 mine, it's made my life easier, especially when Infantry can't set them off. Of course, I might have preferred the normal mine to be made for AT only but this is a decent alternative to me.
28 Aug 2018, 20:20 PM
#94
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 860

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet, but why is the Churchill Crocodile added to a third commander when there are only eight commanders in total? New in Tactical Support and already in Special Weapons Regiment and Vanguard Operations.

I personally think Tactical Support could better use an ability like Raid Operation or Counter Battery.

you're overreacting this is good change better than chese offmaps valetine buff on other hand is weak, cp cost should be lower or maybe lower fuel cost

And somebody tell me where is normal mortar for royal arty regiment ??
28 Aug 2018, 20:27 PM
#95
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

I agree with SneakEye, I don't like the Croc being in three doctrines either. I'd rather have something else instead. An AVRE would be nice. ;) Sure, we could give offmaps but there are plenty to be had on the underused FOP.

While we are discussing this doctrine, I would like to see all the abilities from the Forward Observation Post have their costs decreased. Unlike normal offmap abilities, these require that you keep your building standing. Have it knocked out and those abilities can no longer be used. Not to mention you can only use those abilities at a certain range AND it comes in the late game. Those restrictions more than justify a cost decrease on it's abilities across the board. If the USF Major can have cheap artillery... Why not?
28 Aug 2018, 20:37 PM
#96
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1046

If Brits are getting snares, I think the AEC should be a lot less potent or removed altogether. Light vehicles would be obsolete vs Brits now. So many ways for Brits to kill lights. And the potential of 210mp able to take on tanks single handedly: 2piats + snare. Brit AT power is the best in the game, it just needs a snare. Pak clone, rabid dog AEC won't allow any overextending with axis lights, fast cromwells, stock comets with more armor than a panther, cheap piats that penetrate more than zooks, etc. Now it has a snare. Something needs to give.

On the other hand I'm against stock puma for Ost. I'm against faction symmetry. After the AI nerf to all lights, Ost doesn't struggle as much vs lights and has already the neccessary tools, cheaper schrecks, pak lower pop cap, 222 buff.

HATE the stormtrooper changes. Just give cheaper Stg like 75-80 munis. Pgrens with ambush doctrine beats the living shit out of mp40 storms. Same price but gets mp44 and sprint and ambush bonus. I'd rather use agrens for mp40 troops.
28 Aug 2018, 20:43 PM
#97
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

If Brits are getting snares, I think the AEC should be a lot less potent or removed altogether. Light vehicles would be obsolete vs Brits now. So many ways for Brits to kill lights. And the potential of 210mp able to take on tanks single handedly: 2piats + snare. Brit AT power is the best in the game, it just needs a snare. Pak clone, rabid dog AEC won't allow any overextending with axis lights, fast cromwells, stock comets with more armor than a panther, cheap piats that penetrate more than zooks, etc. Now it has a snare. Something needs to give.

Essentially some of my concerns right here. Accepting HEATs into the British arsenal is just asking for a major re-balance and I'm already weary of the hate the British get. British AT is strong enough to survive without a proper snare. Which is why I'm in the Pro-M7-Mines Camp.
28 Aug 2018, 20:51 PM
#98
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Social Media Manager Badge
Patrion 26

Posts: 323


Essentially some of my concerns right here. Accepting HEATs into the British arsenal is just asking for a major re-balance and I'm already weary of the hate the British get. British AT is strong enough to survive without a proper snare. Which is why I'm in the Pro-M7-Mines Camp.


A certain percentage of Axis players will always whine about the British, it's worth the earache to finally make the UK much more viable and playable.
It's one of the best things in the mod.
28 Aug 2018, 20:54 PM
#99
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

Is it worth having everything else nerfed and become stuck that way once the game stops getting support though?
28 Aug 2018, 20:59 PM
#100
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 922 | Subs: 2

It's one of the best things in the mod.

The only thing everyone will ever agree on is that it's the most polarizing thing in the mod.
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