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Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

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14 Sep 2018, 21:06 PM
#841
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 530

I'm saying doctrines should not have things that are all super effective. Everything should just be good enough that other doctrines are viable.

As far as the KV-2 goes, it is now a formidable threat that cannot be easily dealt with for the Axis. Axis don't have mark target in multiple commanders, and the only mark target they do have is a weaker variant and on a unit rather than the commander.


There will always be super-effective doctrines, even if you nerf all top meta commanders people will just find next most viable and settle for using that next.

Making KV-2 into formidable threat like IS-2 or ISU is exactly what revamp patch is doing right, and why exactly it should be easy to deal with? Its 230 fuel 14 CP heavy tank, if its not threatening nobody will use it (which is exactly whats happening in current live game)
14 Sep 2018, 21:06 PM
#842
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Regarding ostheer defensive doctrine, the STUG E (an ASSAULT GUN) really doesn't fit there. Ostruppen thematically fit in quite well (reserve troops)...

Hull down made a lot more sense.. What about letting ostheer build beefed up bunkers that could say, be upgraded with all 3 features at once (mg, reinforce, medic).. For being a 'defensive doctrine' it surely lacks anything to do with 'defense'. An ability for pioneers to build a soviet style forward HQ would also make a lot of sense rather than the STUG E..
14 Sep 2018, 21:09 PM
#843
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 255


Plus the 76 MM Shermans already low reload speed can get buffed to stupid low levels with combined arms active.


I think Combined Arms is a pretty great idea for mechanized, since the synergy is much easier than in Heavy Cav. Kinda wish that company got something different now.

But what you said made me realize... -30% reload from vet 2, -20% from vet 3, up to -30% from Radio Net, -30% from Combined Arms? -110% reload speed possible?

"Americanizing" the 76mm Sherman's vet would probably be a good call (swap -30% reload with +30% accuracy).
14 Sep 2018, 21:11 PM
#844
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 530



I think Combined Arms is a pretty great idea for mechanized, since the synergy is much easier than in Heavy Cav. Kinda wish that company got something different now.

But what you said made me realize... -30% reload from vet 2, -20% from vet 3, up to -30% from Radio Net, -30% from Combined Arms? -110% reload speed possible?

"Americanizing" the 76mm Sherman's vet would probably be a good call (swap -30% reload with +30% accuracy).


If you remove reload bonus, 76mm will legit become less than useful than stock 75mm Sherman. Reload is only thing making 76mm viable compared to 75mm considering armor/pen vise 76mm is barely better than stock one.
14 Sep 2018, 21:29 PM
#845
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 2990

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2018, 21:06 PMKirrik


Making KV-2 into formidable threat like IS-2 or ISU is exactly what revamp patch is doing right, and why exactly it should be easy to deal with? Its 230 fuel 14 CP heavy tank, if its not threatening nobody will use it (which is exactly whats happening in current live game)


Tell that to the current KT which is not getting a damn thing.
14 Sep 2018, 21:44 PM
#846
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13195 | Subs: 6

KV2 needs slightly faster bullet speed and it'd be fine with the mod changes.
Projectiles in tank mode are faster now, it acts like proper tank in tank mode and is capable of engaging other armor now.

I'm still afraid that the changes to the Soviets will pretty much overshadow everything else.

That really is going to happen regardless.

Compare soviet selected revamp doctrines with others.

Other factions have weak and unpopular doctrines revamped.

Soviets are having community memes replaced with actual doctrines.
14 Sep 2018, 21:45 PM
#847
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1179



Tell that to the current KT which is not getting a damn thing.


They should at least try to include some KT changes like for the british snare.
The thing is goddamn useless....no is even self damaging.
14 Sep 2018, 21:46 PM
#848
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 255

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2018, 21:11 PMKirrik


If you remove reload bonus, 76mm will legit become less than useful than stock 75mm Sherman. Reload is only thing making 76mm viable compared to 75mm considering armor/pen vise 76mm is barely better than stock one.


I mean, that could be changed as well.
It would make sense if the Sherman 76 and the Easy 8 had similar weapons, but they don't.

It would also make sense if the Easy 8 wasn't slower than the other Shermans, or had slightly better moving accuracy instead of extra health. Oh well.
14 Sep 2018, 21:47 PM
#849
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2654 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2018, 21:06 PMBurts
Regarding ostheer defensive doctrine, the STUG E (an ASSAULT GUN) really doesn't fit there. Ostruppen thematically fit in quite well (reserve troops)...

Hull down made a lot more sense.. What about letting ostheer build beefed up bunkers that could say, be upgraded with all 3 features at once (mg, reinforce, medic).. For being a 'defensive doctrine' it surely lacks anything to do with 'defense'. An ability for pioneers to build a soviet style forward HQ would also make a lot of sense rather than the STUG E..


Yeah, concrete bunkers with the same upgrades as CoH.

The command one could be a 4th one with retreat point, or just combine the medical and command bunker upgrades into one.

StuG E could probably be replaced by a command Panzer IV.

Replacing either the Pak 43 or Sector Arty with advanced bunkers would make more sense.

Especially if Osttruppen are given an AT rifle package that would round out the lack of AT if the Pak43 is replaced.
14 Sep 2018, 21:50 PM
#850
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7



Yeah, concrete bunkers with the same upgrades as CoH.

The command one could be a 4th one with retreat point, or just combine the medical and command bunker upgrades into one.

StuG E could probably be replaced by a command Panzer IV.

Replacing either the Pak 43 or Sector Arty with advanced bunkers would make more sense.

Especially if Osttruppen are given an AT rifle package that would round out the lack of AT if the Pak43 is replaced.


what? at rifle ostruppen would round out the lack of AT? youre gonna pay manpower, muni, and popcap for a unit that can only deal with light vehicles and gets massacred by tanks and infantry?
14 Sep 2018, 21:52 PM
#851
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2608



Infantry in proximity to friendly vehicles will gain -20% Reload, +30% Accuracy, and +35% sight.
Vehicles in proximity to friendly infantry will gain +35% sight, -30% Reload, and +5 range.

It's actually a rather good ability that's underused/underrated IMO. The interesting thing with Mechanized is that with the halftrack you can pop combined arms and turn it into a swag wagon with infantry inside. Plus the 76 MM Shermans already low reload speed can get buffed to stupid low levels with combined arms active.

Ooh I like that. I think people just forget about it or don’t use it because of its prohibitive cost (myself included).
14 Sep 2018, 22:00 PM
#852
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1708

Get it. The last patches allies was pushed over the top while axis was nerfed hard. Some play now. U can see it easily in the patchnotes. Play allies in teamgames...i can roflstomp with so much cheese...
14 Sep 2018, 22:32 PM
#853
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2654 | Subs: 2



what? at rifle ostruppen would round out the lack of AT? youre gonna pay manpower, muni, and popcap for a unit that can only deal with light vehicles and gets massacred by tanks and infantry?


You'd rather have a gun that gets insta nuked when spotted or a million guys some of which are armed with AT rifles and sometimes actually hit something?
15 Sep 2018, 03:40 AM
#854
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 37



They should at least try to include some KT changes like for the british snare.
The thing is goddamn useless....no is even self damaging.


Agreed on kt, needs love.

Also with command panther, can we look at dropping the exclusivity with kt? If the king is going to remain lame at least allow a cp to eventually bring him back to glory (with literally 30+ mins of use for v5).
15 Sep 2018, 05:35 AM
#855
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1247



Agreed on kt, needs love.

Also with command panther, can we look at dropping the exclusivity with kt? If the king is going to remain lame at least allow a cp to eventually bring him back to glory (with literally 30+ mins of use for v5).


The KT is still rly good at its job. It's not supposed to carry you across the game sure but don't for get the gun is rly good against inf and has good pen to counter tanks. It requires 2-3+ tanks just to push it and some factions like soviets t-34/76 pen to even pen the butt of the thing.

I can't think of one thing I would change to it, it a good tanks, just not the best at everything which is its intended role....a wall of avg.




Sidenote: Is it possible we could take a look at the IS2 and base tiger 1? feel like they need some lovin in some spots.
15 Sep 2018, 08:09 AM
#856
avatar of KKomrade1337

Posts: 11



You'd rather have a gun that gets insta nuked when spotted or a million guys some of which are armed with AT rifles and sometimes actually hit something?


Well thats what our good ol trusty osttruppen are for, the ones manning the team weapons get nuked, just insta recrew with other osttruppens.

I wouldnt touch osttruppen but I would agree with your mentioned bunker idea. Maybe remove Stug E for better concrete bunkers?
15 Sep 2018, 08:31 AM
#857
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7



You'd rather have a gun that gets insta nuked when spotted or a million guys some of which are armed with AT rifles and sometimes actually hit something?


yes, id much rather have an emplacement that forces the enemy to go a certain doctrine rather than have ostruppen meatbags that cannot hold the line
15 Sep 2018, 08:42 AM
#858
avatar of Stark

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

I'm still afraid that the changes to the Soviets will pretty much overshadow everything else.

They got a new cool ass and practical unit in the form of the commissar, forward retreat point along with him, a Brit sort of Forward HQ, an improved KV-2 and M42, I mean, what's not to love exactly?

While the Ost just gets buffed StuG Es and 5 man squads and that's about it.

Neither German Infantry nor Defensive Doctrine will be as picked as something with let's say a Tiger in it because it's more useful.

Adding some new practical and useful toys to the Ost like a forward retreat point and let's say the Urban Assault Grenadiers would go a long way in improving the balance and making these picks worthwhile in a match and not occupying the 3rd commander slot just in some extremely rare situation in which you could utilize the Osttruppen and trenches or tank traps.

TL;DR -

Soviets have 2 more very useful commanders while the Ost just gets some let's say, rather small in comparison improvements all around, and I don't think I'm the only one in thinking that, at least I hope so.

And I would like to again take the opportunity make the proposal for Osttruppen to gain an AT rifle package to either replace the MG42 upgrade or be an additional exclusive upgrade that is also locked behind tech and also locks out the Panzerfaust, reason being that they are completely useless at even fending off vehicles while in buildings (which they will most often be in) even with the Panzerfaust being present.

Another thing is the addition of some bunker improves like a Pioneer upgrade and a retreat point for command bunkers, reasons of course being that the Ostheer is the only Army basically handicapped with repairs, they only have their Pioneers to repair with and that's about it, and also no retreat point, which the Soviets will now have in comparison.


+1
15 Sep 2018, 09:13 AM
#859
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

Unless we were allowed to modify the look of it, I would rather not have the Soviet Field Camp added. I can still see the Bren Guns and PIATs inside. Can we use a different building, perhaps? Or remove the weapons and reskin it?
15 Sep 2018, 09:16 AM
#860
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2654 | Subs: 2



yes, id much rather have an emplacement that forces the enemy to go a certain doctrine rather than have ostruppen meatbags that cannot hold the line


Like loyal guardsmen they held the line for me, as if I was the God Emperor himself, blessed as he may be.

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