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OKW COMMANDER REVAMP DISCUSSION

15 Aug 2018, 17:45 PM
#41
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2369 | Subs: 5


That'd be odd because it'd be redundant with the KT though. Sort of like pfusies are right now actually, but worse because they basically fill the same exact role.


Saves you about 100 fuel if you only go T1 and T3 into Tiger. I would like a more mobile heavy tank on certain maps, the KT is just too slow. And it could come standard equiped with Panzer Tactician and/or the pintle mount or something. Which would resemble the OKW late/western front style a bit.
17 Aug 2018, 15:07 PM
#42
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618

HI guys,

here are my ideas to redesign the "Overwatch- doctrine".

I come back to some good ideas already posted here and add the OKW-sniper (model already exists in the game file). I think the sniper fits perfectly well to the doctrine's theme and would give OKW much needed flexibility in the first 5 minutes. You should have an even stronger start which is the precondition to "overwatch" your territory. (btw there's also an american sniper model which could be used for the "Rifle company").

Overwatch:
• 0 CP: Goliath
• 1 CP - Forward Recievers and Early warnings merged
• 0 CP: Access to OKW-Sniper after setting up your first truck
• 2 CP: SdKfz 223 „Radio Car“
• 10 - (PASSIVE) Veteran leFH 18 Artillery: Sturmpioneers can construct 10.5cm field howitzer emplacements which start with veteran crews and have the ability to overwatch and counter-battery.

Feedback very much appreciated!






17 Aug 2018, 15:10 PM
#43
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2042

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2018, 15:07 PMSmartie
HI guys,

here are my ideas to redesign the "Overwatch- doctrine".

I come back to some good ideas already posted here and add the OKW-sniper (model already exists in the game file). I think the sniper fits perfectly well to the doctrine's theme and would give OKW much needed flexibility in the first 5 minutes. You should have an even stronger start which is the precondition to "overwatch" your territory. (btw there's also an american sniper model which could be used for the "Rifle company").

Overwatch:
• 0 CP: Goliath
• 1 CP - Forward Recievers and Early warnings merged
• 0 CP: Access to OKW-Sniper after setting up your first truck
• 2 CP: SdKfz 223 „Radio Car“
• 10 - (PASSIVE) Veteran leFH 18 Artillery: Sturmpioneers can construct 10.5cm field howitzer emplacements which start with veteran crews and have the ability to overwatch and counter-battery.

Feedback very much appreciated!




Veteran crew LEFH + doctrinal OKW sniper? Not a good idea.
17 Aug 2018, 15:17 PM
#44
avatar of Planet Smasher
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 632 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2018, 15:07 PMSmartie
I come back to some good ideas already posted here and add the OKW-sniper (model already exists in the game file). I think the sniper fits perfectly well to the doctrine's theme and would give OKW much needed flexibility in the first 5 minutes. You should have an even stronger start which is the precondition to "overwatch" your territory. (btw there's also an american sniper model which could be used for the "Rifle company").

Which models do you mean?
17 Aug 2018, 15:55 PM
#45
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618


Which models do you mean?


In the "All units mod" you can chose the OKW-Sniper.

17 Aug 2018, 15:56 PM
#46
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618




Veteran crew LEFH + doctrinal OKW sniper? Not a good idea.


Well, then replace the Veteran crew LEFH with the standard version at 8 CP.
I would like to know if you think that the sniper has a role in the OKW army.
17 Aug 2018, 15:58 PM
#47
avatar of Planet Smasher
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 632 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2018, 15:55 PMSmartie
In the "All units mod" you can chose the OKW-Sniper.

Thanks, I'll have a look. And the US Sniper?
17 Aug 2018, 16:05 PM
#48
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3605 | Subs: 1

Lets remove all snipers. Snipers are bad.
17 Aug 2018, 16:32 PM
#49
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618


Thanks, I'll have a look. And the US Sniper?


US-Sniper is also in the "All units mod" avaiable. I think if OKW gets an sniper via doctrine, US should too.
17 Aug 2018, 17:11 PM
#50
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2042

Lets remove all snipers. Snipers are bad.



More like rework all snipers so they have a different role. Like recon, arty/mortar coordination, combat support (maybe like Jäger Light infantry) etc. That could be a itneresting unit to use. Which would be a huge step up from the annoyance snipers are right now.
17 Aug 2018, 17:11 PM
#51
avatar of SneakEye
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 577 | Subs: 3

Thanks, I'll have a look. And the US Sniper?

The US sniper has the pathfinder model and the OKW sniper has the obersoldaten model.
No new models sadly.
17 Aug 2018, 17:18 PM
#52
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618


The US sniper has the pathfinder model and the OKW sniper has the obersoldaten model.
No new models sadly.


OK!
Thanx for you mod btw. There are so many units that not exists in the live version. I really hope that the mod team comes back to this units for the redesigns and new commanders. Gebirgsjäger would be an awesome addition for example.

17 Aug 2018, 17:25 PM
#53
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618




More like rework all snipers so they have a different role. Like recon, arty/mortar coordination, combat support (maybe like Jäger Light infantry) etc. That could be a itneresting unit to use. Which would be a huge step up from the annoyance snipers are right now.


Well, that would surely be a very nice addition. Why not give the OKW and US-sniper these abilities so they have a different role as the current snipers? Maybe they could get the "coordinated fire ability" from the artillery officer and some other stuff.
My main point is that OKW and US really could use some new units for their openings, and the sniper (regardless of their role) fits well to the doctrine.
Let's discuss which abilities these scout snipers could get!
17 Aug 2018, 17:35 PM
#54
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2042

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2018, 17:25 PMSmartie

Let's discuss which abilities these scout snipers could get!


Basically Jäger Light Infantry but less overpriced or at least easier to access.

- Booby Trap territories

- Trip wire flares that give good sight on a bigger area for 20 muni (but not killing models like the soviet one)

- Sprint

- Coordinated fire ability of Ost arty officer

- same cloak as snipers have now

- 2 or 3 men squads

- DPS would be limited to one member of the squad sniping models below 75% and others giving a bit of long distance support with Kar98s, basically much like current J-Light

- fast decap speed

I have no idea how that might work out in game but it could be interesting.


Maybe just rework Jäger Light Infantry a bit to make them more worthwhile OR rework the doctrine so it becomes somewhat decent because right now it´s really bad.
17 Aug 2018, 20:03 PM
#55
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618



Basically Jäger Light Infantry but less overpriced or at least easier to access.

- Booby Trap territories

- Trip wire flares that give good sight on a bigger area for 20 muni (but not killing models like the soviet one)

- Sprint

- Coordinated fire ability of Ost arty officer

- same cloak as snipers have now

- 2 or 3 men squads

- DPS would be limited to one member of the squad sniping models below 75% and others giving a bit of long distance support with Kar98s, basically much like current J-Light

I like the suggestions but with these abilities we should just trade the Sniper versus the Jaeger Light Inf. unit which should get the "coordinated fire" ability. Would have the advantage that Scavange doc would also get some (much needed) love.



- fast decap speed

I have no idea how that might work out in game but it could be interesting.


Maybe just rework Jäger Light Infantry a bit to make them more worthwhile OR rework the doctrine so it becomes somewhat decent because right now it´s really bad.
17 Aug 2018, 20:06 PM
#56
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618

Sorry for the missed quotation.
I just wanted to say that with these abilities it would be better to give the doctrine the Jaeger Light inf unit which should get "the coordinated fire" ability. Would have the advantage that the "Scavange doctrine" would get some much need love too (via the improved Jaegers).
18 Aug 2018, 09:53 AM
#57
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 618


Reworked "overwatch-doctrine":

Overwatch:
• 0 CP: Goliath
• 1 CP - Forward Recievers and Early warnings merged
• 2 CP: Jaeger Light infantry (improved version with "coordinated fire ability")
• 2 CP: SdKfz 223 „Radio Car“
• 8 CP: leFH 18 Artillery

Some thoughts about PANZER ELITE
I think this doctrine should give you not only improvements to your tanks. OKW's tanks are obviously the most expensive ones, come relatively late and you will barely have more than 2.
As some guys already wrote a call-in infantry unit would be a good way to give this doctrine some punch in the early game.
So why not give this doctrine a "Mechanised Elite Group": A SdKfz 250 with Obersoldaten. That would give you the chance to get "early" Obers, who can vet a lot better. Considering the high price for this group, spamming would not be possible.

This group would fit in well with the other abilities already mentioned in this thread.

Panzer Elite
•CP2 - (PASSIVE) Panzer Tactician
•CP3 - Mechanised Elite Group (SdKfz 250 with Obersoldaten)
•CP4 - Breakthrough
•CP7 - Tank Commander (improved version with HEAT mun)
•CP13 - Tiger I call in

Thanks for the feedback!

18 Aug 2018, 17:02 PM
#58
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2730 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2018, 09:53 AMSmartie

Reworked "overwatch-doctrine":

Overwatch:
• 0 CP: Goliath
• 1 CP - Forward Recievers and Early warnings merged
• 2 CP: Jaeger Light infantry (improved version with "coordinated fire ability")
• 2 CP: SdKfz 223 „Radio Car“
• 8 CP: leFH 18 Artillery

Some thoughts about PANZER ELITE
I think this doctrine should give you not only improvements to your tanks. OKW's tanks are obviously the most expensive ones, come relatively late and you will barely have more than 2.
As some guys already wrote a call-in infantry unit would be a good way to give this doctrine some punch in the early game.
So why not give this doctrine a "Mechanised Elite Group": A SdKfz 250 with Obersoldaten. That would give you the chance to get "early" Obers, who can vet a lot better. Considering the high price for this group, spamming would not be possible.

This group would fit in well with the other abilities already mentioned in this thread.

Panzer Elite
•CP2 - (PASSIVE) Panzer Tactician
•CP3 - Mechanised Elite Group (SdKfz 250 with Obersoldaten)
•CP4 - Breakthrough
•CP7 - Tank Commander (improved version with HEAT mun)
•CP13 - Tiger I call in

Thanks for the feedback!



Your idea of a Panzer Elite commander is very good, but it gives me another idea on how the PE could really be brought back into a single commander, at least sort of. Of course this is just entirely my opinion.

223 Command Car - From SnakeEye's "All Units" mod, capable of capturing and locking down territory in order to increase resource production. The PE as well as the OKW are not able to build Observation points or resource caches respectively so this would be a nice addition to the OKW, of course you would be securing territory but for a cost of manpower, fuel and population cap space.

251 Halftrack Mechanized Group - The 250 is open topped, comes armed with double MG42s, perfect for supporting your Panzergrenadiers, can also drop med packs since the PGs won't have med packs like the Sturmpioneers in order to heal on the move, similar to the USF Mechanized Company M3 Combat Group Call in. The Panzergrenadiers inside would be an expensive alternative to both the Sturmpioneers and Volksgrenadiers. 4 or 5 man squad armed with Kar98ks initially, could be upgraded with StGs or Panzerschrecks similar to the Stormtroopers and they can also only repair vehicles.

Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" - firing the normal Panzergranate, cheaper non-tech alternative to the Jagdpanzer IV.

Repair and Recovery 251 Halftrack - also like the 223 being able to lock down is present in SnakeEye's "All Units" mod, can recover German vehicle wrecks in order to get them fully operational again, impedes an economic debuff according to the vehicle in order to be balanced, that meaning that recovering a Panzer IV would be a lot cheaper than a King Tiger for example.

Tiger I - Same as your idea, reason for it is the same as the AT Hetzer above.

This is inspired by the Ostheer Mechanized Assault doctrine together with the Panzer Elite's concept and of course what's possible from the All Units mod in order to cram the PE into a single commander, more or less.

I think that the light vehicles would be the most interesting things here since they would be able to cover some of the OKW's draw backs, especially the 223 with it's locking down of sectors and the 250 Ambulance being able to reinforce on the move, or at least being a bit more mobile.

Alternatively the Repair and Recovery 251 can be replaced by some sort of Artillery strike, similar to the Ostheer Mechanized Assault doctrine.

Like I said this is just my opinion, cheers.
20 Aug 2018, 03:27 AM
#59
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 42



I actually did bring up both these points (in other threads though apparently). Command Panther could perhaps lose the coordinated fire ability and gain a better passive combat aura instead. I'd put Sturmtiger in Special Operations because it fits the doctrine theme way better than the JT. Combination of flares and Sturmtiger is good, but not as powerful.

I think JT is fine in Breakthrough. Perhaps it could go to Overwatch, Breakthrough could be given a Tiger I callin. For variety's sake.


If comand panter is in the mix again can we look into dropping the KT exclusivity. I belive this was preposed before but fell though during patchwork.
20 Aug 2018, 22:27 PM
#60
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 354 | Subs: 1

I dunno if people are even realizing they are asking to put the JT in with spec ops flares, which are the best recon ingame imo.


What's wrong with some synergy? Soviets have howitzers + recon, or mark target + ISU. Wehrmact has spotting scopes + Elefant(!). These commanders are hardly meta, either. The only thing that makes Special Ops meta is the Command Panther anyway.

On top of that they want to put the command panther with coordinated fire +25% damage boost to a single target WITH HEAT in the same doctrine. If you can do the math on the cmd panther then you should be able to understand the issue.


That's a pretty good point. What about this revision?

[7CP] HEAT Shells
[7CP] NahVw
PzIV, Panther (not Command Panther), KT, and JgPzIV can launch either smoke (Psuedo USF-Style) or small frag grenades for self defense. Shared cooldowns.

Keep in mind I suggested also nerfing the Command Panther's RoF to make it less independent of a vehicle as it is currently.
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