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Nerf "Encirclement Doctrine" Axis. BROKEN

1 Sep 2021, 15:46 PM
#1
avatar of Solved

Posts: 28

Encirclement commander broken in teamgames

So after the second game encountering this masterpiece. This commander is so broken in teamgames that when two off them select that specific commander you can just Bomb neutralize the backcap for 80 muni at the same time and press one button to DELETE THE ENTIRE Enemy team in a instant! The call in even seems bugged and continous the barrage when recapped with over 5 seconds off bombings and mortars "enough to delete your entire army and if continoud is able to eradicate the entire ALLIED TEAM, so this whole thing is almost unavoidable in the process.

I don't even know who tested this? First and foremost it has every single ability to cap anything , vehicles can cap it , it can throw stormtroopers out off buildings to cap and it's able to insta neutralize it in 4 seconds on top it has a stuka to neutralize over the fog off war!

The design is beyond broken with a small coordinated premade team off 2 or more even.

So basicly
- Needs to just have the points "Isolated" no cap or anything
- Can neutralize a cap in the fog of war with one stuka
- Nukes the entire map with Anti-tank , Stuka bombings , small mortars inside the fog of war isolated tech pieces

Please Nerf this call in holy fuck.

Preview video

1 Sep 2021, 16:10 PM
#2
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 840 | Subs: 1

1 Sep 2021, 16:14 PM
#3
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 89

Very annoying to deal with on maps like Angermuende since it has so many buildings for no apparent reason.
Mass-mine spam hardcounters this tbh because he wont have time to detect all the mines if he's going to use vehicles to cap.Fuel caches are actually essential to give you enough time to respond and contest the territories.
Also CtP works like SOV Anti-tank-overwatch except it targets everything, has no need for recon to actually drop shells unlike ATO and can barrage multiple sectors for only 200MU.
Your best defense against this doc is literally just assuming that the OST player is a idiot because he's gonna be very predictable the entire match doing one thing whilst his team suffers as a result because he's not focusing on fuel/VP control.
1 Sep 2021, 17:42 PM
#4
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1806 | Subs: 1

Close the Pocket is indeed super strong when pulled off but it's a one trick pony commander built entirely around this gimmick and isn't a very good commander otherwise. One simple thing you can do is build a cache on the cutoff which gives you plenty of time to prevent the decap. You can also easily demo buildings to prevent Stormtroopers. Worst case scenario you just pay attention and mass retreat until it's over it's not like the ramp-up time doesn't give you enough time to do that - if you don't notice the blinking sectors on your Tac Map that's on you honestly.
1 Sep 2021, 20:24 PM
#5
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3266 | Subs: 1

I wouldn't say it's OP but it's clearly a very dumb gimmick. Just one of the many stupid commanders Relic added for no reason other than $

I'm not sure who's the bigger troll, the people who use it or Relic for designing it in the first place
1 Sep 2021, 20:33 PM
#6
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Yea. Its dumb. Some maps have incredibly aggressive cut offs making it quite easy.

Its rare, and we are pretty much too late in development to just delete it. I've only really seen it in pre-made cheese comps.
1 Sep 2021, 20:37 PM
#7
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 197

Doesnt Scorched Earth Policy completely counter this strat?
1 Sep 2021, 20:39 PM
#8
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 406 | Subs: 1

another episode of: axis commander overpowered on maps with trash design, forum members who didn't play in years say its balanced


Its a game of "how many stormtrooper squads can i lose before i finally achieve instant map control?" and the allies desperately preventing this
1 Sep 2021, 20:50 PM
#9
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2601 | Subs: 2

I find it one of the most 'fun' commanders in the sense of it has an interesting idea and theme.
The design is not that great though, I mostly found it to be a threat in 2v2, 3v3 not so much. Build a cache on the cutoff (which usually happens in team games anyway) and this whole commander is pretty much useless.
1 Sep 2021, 21:42 PM
#10
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 890

It is quite toxic if you pull it off as an arranged team on the bad designed maps where you only need to decap two points. I don't see many options to hinder it. We did this some times by ourselves until we said we don't want to do it anymore.

Four players who want to pull this off really can pull this off:

1) normal Stuka Bomb + Break Supply Line decaps any point with full health cache for the cost of 280Mu per point + recon plane or infiltration squad spawned for sight

2) Best combination is 2x Encircle and 2x CAS to do a two point cache destroy and point decap at the same time. CAS has recon plane + stuka bomb. On top it has AI strafe to pin infantry that tries to get point back. Furthermore CAS is a doctrine with a lot of munition which helps a lot. Encircle adds 2x Stormtroopers to prolong the decap or give sight where needed and of course the main dish.

Idiotic all or nothing ability that can't be stopped on some maps and is next to useless on others. Remove and add something else.


1 Sep 2021, 22:09 PM
#11
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1254

Some maps it is not that hard to pull of by an arranged team but it's still rare. It's a funny gimmicky commander that has some cancer in it but that's it. The ability itself is more than fine. Need to react fast though, real fast if it happens to you. Redball is a horrible map to start with, and the easiest to pull off
1 Sep 2021, 22:18 PM
#12
2 Sep 2021, 07:35 AM
#13
avatar of waasdijki

Posts: 75

You almost never see anyone use this effectively, if you now what your enemy is trying to do it is easy to defend against. Also the ability stops when you reconnect your territory + 1 cache destroyed this entire strat.
2 Sep 2021, 08:03 AM
#14
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 890

Also the ability stops when you reconnect your territory + 1 cache destroyed this entire strat.


As I said at post #10 a cache is no protection vs an arranged team in 4vs4. This abilitiy is op on maps like Redball / Whiteball in the hands of an arranged team which knows how to execute it. You can decap two points with full health cache at the same time only with commander abilities.

On random teams or other maps it won't work.

2 Sep 2021, 08:11 AM
#15
avatar of Solved

Posts: 28

You almost never see anyone use this effectively, if you now what your enemy is trying to do it is easy to defend against. Also the ability stops when you reconnect your territory + 1 cache destroyed this entire strat.


With a arranged team off 2 or more this strat is literally devastating , the main problem with trying to counter it with recapping is that it actually does not stop on a instant recap as it sends out 2 more barrages before it ends over the whole map , a cache can also be freely destroyed with cheap muni CAS attacks.

This is the second time i encountered a pre-made using this strat and it's beyond broken in my opinion how this even passed QA testing is beyond my understanding.

EDIT: Axis literally already has everything non - doctrinal anyway in teamgames for the most part , so using this commander in a pre-made is just another nail in the coffin.
2 Sep 2021, 13:15 PM
#16
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2573 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2021, 08:11 AMSolved


With a arranged team off 2 or more this strat is literally devastating


You can see in the loading screen if your enemy has that commander equipped. If it is so broken OP, why don't you spend 1 minute with engineers to build a cache AND barbed wire around the capping circle, and maybe even a bunker? Stormtroopers cant do anything vs that fast enough. And if you are telling me now that it's the TANKS that neutralize your cutoffs on whiteball and redball, then your team is just complete trash.


In almost 7,000 hours I've had the ability successfully used against me once or twice
2 Sep 2021, 14:35 PM
#17
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 708

Doesnt Scorched Earth Policy completely counter this strat?

it actually does and the commander is quite decent for team games.
2 Sep 2021, 14:40 PM
#18
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 312

This ability is damn expensive and quite hard to pull off (if playing with randoms). Just keep an eye on your cut-off.
2 Sep 2021, 14:44 PM
#19
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 312

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2021, 08:11 AMSolved
EDIT: Axis literally already has everything non - doctrinal anyway in teamgames for the most part , so using this commander in a pre-made is just another nail in the coffin.


Like 60 range tank destroyers :)

It's 1 commander with 1 ability, if you see 1 enemy that brings that commander you just keep an engineer or an HMG team on your cut-off and you'll notice immediatly when they're trying to pull this shit..
2 Sep 2021, 14:55 PM
#20
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1254



You can see in the loading screen if your enemy has that commander equipped. If it is so broken OP, why don't you spend 1 minute with engineers to build a cache AND barbed wire around the capping circle, and maybe even a bunker? Stormtroopers cant do anything vs that fast enough. And if you are telling me now that it's the TANKS that neutralize your cutoffs on whiteball and redball, then your team is just complete trash.


In almost 7,000 hours I've had the ability successfully used against me once or twice



+

In 500 games I've played competitively I've had it successfully pulled of once. And it was in a rank 200 AT vs rank 10 and 2 rank 5000 teammates. And in casual games never ever seen it neither had a teammate that successfully pulled it off.
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