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USF and MP bleed

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5 Sep 2021, 07:27 AM
#81
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 157

rifles is the only USF mainline infantry. the rest are elite/specialist. Rifles are very fragile late game, having 6 men squad mitigate the issue.
5 Sep 2021, 15:00 PM
#82
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658



It would be a nice idea, if USF lategame AI didn't keep getting nerfed when it is working right.


Even when USF first launched, before all of the nerfs took place playing as Axis USF were always the easiest Allied faction to deal with and the win rates were fairly even.

After all the nerfs that took place due to the balance team and their infinite wisdom, USF is basically easy mode for AXIS and the only reason any Axis player would lose is because the USF player happened to be significantly better not because the factions were balanced.


Almost every single USF unit was hit with nerfs.
Ambulance
Rear Echelon (even volley fire was nerfed)
Rifleman
Rangers
USF Mortar
WC51 Military Truck
M2HB Heavy Machine Gun
M20 Utility Car
M5A1 "Stuart" Light Tank
M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer
M8 "Scott" Howitzer Motor Carriage
Calliope
Pershing



Besides the AT Gun, AA Halftrack and Sherman almost every single thing USF has has been nerfed, some units outright gutted into oblivion. USF is the most nerfed faction in the history of COH 2. Seems like balance team wants USF to make Rifles and only that so they continue to spam MG-42's and they can have fun playing a tower defense game.


I don't think USF needs any more buff to the rifle.
It would be nice if the Stuart was on par with the T-70 like it used to be before it was gutted. USF has so many vehicles that are a waste of fuel and don't serve a role or purpose.



USF Mortar - Lets give USF something to make besides Rifleman since Rear Echelon are useless...USF players make mortars making use of combined arms but mortar actually does damage ends up getting nerfed so that it can only tickle enemies while they laugh and sit under constant barrage never losing a model.

M20 used to be a good shock unit but it inconvenienced Whermacht because apparently making a SdKfz 222 Armored Car or gasp using mines was too difficult so it got nerfed.

Stuart got nerfed because it threatened OKW blobs and making 2 raketenwerfers was too difficult so instead lets gut the unit so OKW blobs can run free without opposition.

Great we can still use Pak Howitzers so it will be fine then that gets nerfed afterwards.


Ah yes now USF has to use M8 Scotts now that Mortars, Pak Howitzers, M20 and Stuart has been nerfed to deal with infinite Axis blobs and team weapons, lets nerf that too.

USF - "We still have Calliope though!" and wait here it comes...Calliope Nerfs...

The only thing the balance team has succeeded in is nerfing USF into the ground with their endless crusade of nerfs.


I find it rather appalling that a faction missing out on so many tools (Non Doctrinal Mines, Non Doctrinal Artillery, No Sniper, Lack of Good Sight Options without getting PathFinders for example) has nothing special. M20 is trash, Stuart is trash, M8 Scott is trash.

The only thing that really keeps USF in team games is the ambulance.




5 Sep 2021, 15:31 PM
#83
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



Even when USF first launched, before all of the nerfs took place playing as Axis USF were always the easiest Allied faction to deal with and the win rates were fairly even.

After all the nerfs that took place due to the balance team and their infinite wisdom, USF is basically easy mode for AXIS and the only reason any Axis player would lose is because the USF player happened to be significantly better not because the factions were balanced.


Almost every single USF unit was hit with nerfs.
Ambulance
Rear Echelon (even volley fire was nerfed)
Rifleman
Rangers
USF Mortar
WC51 Military Truck
M2HB Heavy Machine Gun
M20 Utility Car
M5A1 "Stuart" Light Tank
M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer
M8 "Scott" Howitzer Motor Carriage
Calliope
Pershing



Besides the AT Gun, AA Halftrack and Sherman almost every single thing USF has has been nerfed, some units outright gutted into oblivion. USF is the most nerfed faction in the history of COH 2. Seems like balance team wants USF to make Rifles and only that so they continue to spam MG-42's and they can have fun playing a tower defense game.


It would be nice if the Stuart was on par with the T-70 like it used to be before it was gutted. USF has so many vehicles that are a waste of fuel and don't serve a role or purpose.



USF Mortar - Lets give USF something to make besides Rifleman since Rear Echelon are useless...USF players make mortars making use of combined arms but mortar actually does damage ends up getting nerfed so that it can only tickle enemies while they laugh and sit under constant barrage never losing a model.

M20 used to be a good shock unit but it inconvenienced Whermacht because apparently making a SdKfz 222 Armored Car or gasp using mines was too difficult so it got nerfed.

Stuart got nerfed because it threatened OKW blobs and making 2 raketenwerfers was too difficult so instead lets gut the unit so OKW blobs can run free without opposition.

Great we can still use Pak Howitzers so it will be fine then that gets nerfed afterwards.


Ah yes now USF has to use M8 Scotts now that Mortars, Pak Howitzers, M20 and Stuart has been nerfed to deal with infinite Axis blobs and team weapons, lets nerf that too.

USF - "We still have Calliope though!" and wait here it comes...Calliope Nerfs...

The only thing the balance team has succeeded in is nerfing USF into the ground with their endless crusade of nerfs.


I find it rather appalling that a faction missing out on so many tools (Non Doctrinal Mines, Non Doctrinal Artillery, No Sniper, Lack of Good Sight Options without getting PathFinders for example) has nothing special. M20 is trash, Stuart is trash, M8 Scott is trash.

The only thing that really keeps USF in team games is the ambulance.






Every factions have been nerfed and redesign, your post doesn't make much sense on that point. I tend to think USF was pretty much on the right spot before Scott over-nerf.

The problem with the balance team is their biais toward their preferred faction and how they carefully never nerf too much their preferred toys compare to other. They don't care to overnerf the Scott because they don't use it, they do care to not overnerf Ostruppen because they like to use them. They care to never overnerf the Brumbar or the Sturmtiger even if they know those units are problematic specially on team game because they use them a lot.

The underlying issue here is that if they would nerf the Brumbar to a fair and balance state, they would automatically feel issues in their own game and probably tend to nerf the opposite factions as to compensate their lose of "skill".
5 Sep 2021, 17:54 PM
#84
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



Even when USF first launched, before all of the nerfs took place playing as Axis USF were always the easiest Allied faction to deal with and the win rates were fairly even.

........




That is simply false. On release USF owned Osteer so bad that they had to move the mg42 to t 0
Vaz
5 Sep 2021, 18:58 PM
#85
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158



Besides the AT Gun, AA Halftrack and Sherman almost every single thing USF has has been nerfed, some units outright gutted into oblivion. USF is the most nerfed faction in the history of COH 2. Seems like balance team wants USF to make Rifles and only that so they continue to spam MG-42's and they can have fun playing a tower defense game.






Actually, the aaht was the focus of multiple nerfs if memory serves. Consecutive too. 1v1 players felt that when they played usf it was too easy for them to lock out their opponents. It was quite the offensive beast when it came out. The machine guns actually shot bullets instead of nerf darts. The main cannon actually hit infantry and would mess them up. I think the suppression applied like the mg42 as well, it had this large area of effect that could stop large blobs pretty quick.
5 Sep 2021, 19:48 PM
#86
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2021, 17:54 PMVipper


That is simply false. On release USF owned Osteer so bad that they had to move the mg42 to t 0


Ah yes what would I do without Coh2.orgs #1 Troll making yet another false claim as usual.




MG42 HMG:
To encourage and diversify builds we have decided to move the HMG to the HQ. We expect this change will prompt more Wehrmacht opening strategies. We have adjusted the MG42’s cost and build time to bring it more in line with its performance.


Taken from the Developers/Path Notes Themselves


Vipper please stop trolling and making things up, you have a habit of making false claims. The MG-42 moving to HQ was mostly made to allow for Ostruppen builds to be more viable by being able to skip T1 and rush straight into T2 and had very little to do with USF. Also making an MG-42 from T1 would set you back like 15 seconds. If 15 seconds is the difference between losing and winning the match then its most likely a L2P issue.


Anytime anyone brings up a legitimate concern about an allied unit you are almost always there to argue against it. You are basically the Fox News of COH2.Org with your nonstop Axis propaganda bias.

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2021, 16:18 PMVipper

Combat engineer are far from terrible in combat.


Meanwhile you post silly comments like this.

You are entitled to your own opinion despite how wrong it usually is 99% of the time (some things I do agree with you with such as how you made a great post in regards to different unit tiers like low quality infantry, mainline, elite or a cap on kills with Sturmtiger/Avre)

I want each faction to be equally good which is hard when people like yourself constantly troll every discussion that pops up. If you actually care about the game (which I assume everyone on this forum does) then take a moment to reflect upon your bias and how it negatively impacts the game when people such as yourself spew nonsense daily.



jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2021, 18:58 PMVaz



Actually, the aaht was the focus of multiple nerfs if memory serves. Consecutive too. 1v1 players felt that when they played usf it was too easy for them to lock out their opponents. It was quite the offensive beast when it came out. The machine guns actually shot bullets instead of nerf darts. The main cannon actually hit infantry and would mess them up. I think the suppression applied like the mg42 as well, it had this large area of effect that could stop large blobs pretty quick.


You are right on that. Guess we can add another unit to the list that have been gutted and nerfed to the ground. Kind of makes sense why USF is the least played faction (next to UKF)




Vaz
6 Sep 2021, 02:18 AM
#87
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

I'm pretty sure the sherman was nerfed as well, likely due to the HE rounds wtfpwning squads
6 Sep 2021, 02:50 AM
#88
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176



If 3 ranger spam is giving you problems then it's a L2P issue. Try it against decent opponents and you'll see what happens


Teach me then? Your advice?
I can simply type "l2p" to everyone's complaining.
6 Sep 2021, 08:48 AM
#89
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



Teach me then? Your advice?
I can simply type "l2p" to everyone's complaining.



OKW: P4 with decent micro will bleed rangers alot, even zooked up rangers. Stuka zu fuss. MG34. Obers with LMGs will bleed tommy rangers on approach, hard.

OST: Brummbar, MG42, Werfer, P4.

That's how you deal with ranger spams, 3 rangers are 30 pop, leaving little room for snares + indirect + AT.
6 Sep 2021, 09:43 AM
#90
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176




OKW: P4 with decent micro will bleed rangers alot, even zooked up rangers. Stuka zu fuss. MG34. Obers with LMGs will bleed tommy rangers on approach, hard.

OST: Brummbar, MG42, Werfer, P4.

That's how you deal with ranger spams, 3 rangers are 30 pop, leaving little room for snares + indirect + AT.


You think I didnt have infantry to vs them? 3 Fall & MG34 when they're coming? Cover to Cover & Callioped

As I said, Ranger zook spam in Pershing commander isnt a problem, Ranger zook spam in Calliope do
Pershing does have smoke, but they dont get speed boost, in a large area.

Talk is easier than facing it.
6 Sep 2021, 10:08 AM
#91
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



You think I didnt have infantry to vs them? 3 Fall & MG34 when they're coming? Cover to Cover & Callioped

As I said, Ranger zook spam in Pershing commander isnt a problem, Ranger zook spam in Calliope do
Pershing does have smoke, but they dont get speed boost, in a large area.

Talk is easier than facing it.


Zook spam with a calliope is cheese, and probably the only viable late game solution to axis tanks + elite blobs USF has, but it's still counterable. A well timed Stuka, ober poison smoke can deny cover to cover pushes, especially since you know where they're going. All you have to do is predict the Calliope barrage. After that, the US player will have absolutely no AI, you can easily push them back. Problem is, a lot of players play with half a brain cell and are easy to predict. Don't know how you play, but complaining about a player that spends about 60 population on 2 units is hilarious. Cheese? Sure. But not some HC non-counterable cheese like STiger or Elefant/Jagd.

USF is the easiest to win against in teamgames. Even if you're slightly below the skill level, you should win with superior infantry/tanks. USF can only rely on cheese to win in teamgames.
6 Sep 2021, 11:50 AM
#92
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



Ah yes what would I do without Coh2.orgs #1 Troll making yet another false claim as usual.

Ah yes once more you do not have any arguments and thus attack the person instead of the point.



Taken from the Developers/Path Notes Themselves


Vipper please stop trolling and making things up, you have a habit of making false claims. The MG-42 moving to HQ was mostly made to allow for Ostruppen builds to be more viable by being able to skip T1 and rush straight into T2 and had very little to do with USF. Also making an MG-42 from T1 would set you back like 15 seconds. If 15 seconds is the difference between losing and winning the match then its most likely a L2P issue.

From the same patch notes:



Now unless you want to argue that Ostheer did not receive major buffs because they could not cope with USF what you have post does not contradict what I posted.

USF owned Ostheer on release badly the same way OKW owned Soviet on release (only soviet come up with maxim spam to cope).



Anytime anyone brings up a legitimate concern about an allied unit you are almost always there to argue against it. You are basically the Fox News of COH2.Org with your nonstop Axis propaganda bias.


Meanwhile you post silly comments like this.

You are entitled to your own opinion despite how wrong it usually is 99% of the time (some things I do agree with you with such as how you made a great post in regards to different unit tiers like low quality infantry, mainline, elite or a cap on kills with Sturmtiger/Avre)

I want each faction to be equally good which is hard when people like yourself constantly troll every discussion that pops up. If you actually care about the game (which I assume everyone on this forum does) then take a moment to reflect upon your bias and how it negatively impacts the game when people such as yourself spew nonsense daily.



I want even bother responding to rest of toxic comment and I will simply say that you theory the USF where bad from release and only become worse with every patch is simply silly.

Here some stat proving you wrong:
https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats#sov_meta

Highest win ration faction USF with 59%


https://www.coh2.org/news/92866/automatch-stats-factions-teams-and-maps#stat1v1
"In this article I will examine map and factions stats taken from automatch games that I retrieved from the 15th of December 2018 to the 19th March 2019."

"Overall, win percentages for all factions (see above) are pretty close to 50%. USF is most successful with an overall win percentage of about 52%, whereas OH seems to get the short end of the stick. On the allied side, the Soviets wins least. "



6 Sep 2021, 12:17 PM
#93
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 599

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2021, 11:50 AMVipper

Ah yes once more you do not have any arguments and thus attack the person instead of the point.



From the same patch notes:



Now unless you want to argue that Ostheer did not receive major buffs because they could not cope with USF what you have post does not contradict what I posted.

USF owned Ostheer on release badly the same way OKW owned Soviet on release (only soviet come up with maxim spam to cope).




I want even bother responding to rest of toxic comment and I will simply say that you theory the USF where bad from release and only become worse with every patch is simply silly.

Here some stat proving you wrong:
https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats#sov_meta

Highest win ration faction USF with 59%


https://www.coh2.org/news/92866/automatch-stats-factions-teams-and-maps#stat1v1
"In this article I will examine map and factions stats taken from automatch games that I retrieved from the 15th of December 2018 to the 19th March 2019."

"Overall, win percentages for all factions (see above) are pretty close to 50%. USF is most successful with an overall win percentage of about 52%, whereas OH seems to get the short end of the stick. On the allied side, the Soviets wins least. "





Just going off memory OKW and USF were OP when originally released. USF had weak tanks but AT Loiter and Rifle company made up for that.

I loved OKW when it first came out, their tech structure allowed a JP4 early as hell. I would just make medic and mechanized rush out JP4 along with Falls doctrine. All bases cover and with good play you had TD out before your opponent got tanks.
6 Sep 2021, 18:19 PM
#94
avatar of TanithScout

Posts: 67



all this tips end mostly like like this:

you have p4 to kite? USF has jacksons behind blobbs.
you have MG to stop blobbs? USF has caliope in the back to insta delte your teamweapons and infantry.


Holy shit you're right thats so broken, wtf why aren't we listening to this guy??!

Dude, the Axis need a tank that both factions can get that is really quick and can also do good AT damage to make it even. It should be really tough too cos youre right to go kill that OP allieds units it would need to DIVE. Man that'd be imba. Probably should make its gun not as good as P4 though so it has a place lolol but maybe give it an mg or 3 lolol. Good thing I don't do game balancing lolol
6 Sep 2021, 19:04 PM
#95
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

@Kurobane

Both USF and OKW were Over-performing upon release and regarding all these nerfs for USF, OKW received the same treatment.

However there is some truth to your statement regarding USF being easy. Regarding 1v1's , i would right now this is probs the best balance weve ever had so maybe you could clarify which game mode we talking about here.

If were talking about team games, I would say USF is easy to deal with UNLESS the USF player goes for callope doc. USF has great all round inf and excellent TD's but terrible indirect fire making them easy to play against if there is no callope. In the past the did compensate with over performing scott and Pak howi, but after the nerfs its much harder. The problem isnt USF having bad units, the problem is they just dont have the tools other factions have.

It is also unfair for you to bash the balance team regarding there unfair treatment of USF, i distinctly remember OKW having volks timing and MP nerfs early game SOLEY for USF who where struggling with mass volk swarm while UKF and soviets were fine with it. OKW early game was nerfed solely for USF.
6 Sep 2021, 21:15 PM
#96
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658


Both USF and OKW were Over-performing upon release and regarding all these nerfs for USF, OKW received the same treatment.


When both factions released I played them both extensively. The best way to learn how to counter a faction is to play it first.


OKW did not receive the same treatment, let me explain. First the initial design of OKW was that of a fuel starved faction. The faction had a significant fuel penalty. To make up for the penalty it required extensive knowledge of the map to salvage wreckages on the field (which weren't clearly explained to the player unless you made a custom game and tried each map to determine optimal salvage points without the AI interfering with you) and to use your Mechanized Truck in which you can convert Ammo to Fuel or Fuel to Ammo. This meant that you had to choose what resource to prioritize and that your units were significantly stronger to compensate. You also did not have access to a stock machine gun.

Naturally once something new comes out people will struggle not because of something is OP but because of the lack of knowledge on how to deal with it. Once players figured out how OKW worked you saw endless Allied Blobs. Penal Spam, Rifle Spam etc which forced OKW to adapt and they had to pick either the Luftwaffe Commander for the CP 1 MG-34 or the Defense Commander for the MG-34 as well.

This led to massive tears in the OKW community because they were forced to pick the same commanders each game just to get the MG-34. Second the fuel penalty while a good idea was way too map dependent. Some maps the design worked fine...on other maps it was a huge fail so they rallied to get the fuel penalty removed.

In smaller game modes OKW was balanced with the fuel penalty. What made them overpowered was when you combined larger maps with a Whermacht player who focused on making Caches which were only 200 MP at the time instead of 250. Now that the resource penalty didn't apply to them (due to caches) they can pump out a King Tiger in like 8 minutes (or less). On their own they were fine but horrendous map design and Whermacht caches threw the balance way out of whack.


Most of the nerfs that OKW received were because adjustments had to be made due to the removal of the Fuel Penalty (which was a significant buff) that the faction was designed around.

Overall they made out like a bandit and were made stronger despite the nerfs. They got to keep their fancy toys like the Stuka that were specifically designed with the factions lack of fuel capacity in mind which is why you can still get it earlier than any other rocket artillery today. Sure it got nerfed but considering the easier access made by the fuel penalty removal overall it was a huge net buff for the faction overall

USF on the other hand have been crippled and made significantly worse over time, they never had a resource penalty setting them back or gimmicks in their design such as needing to salvage resources. These nerfs shrunk the USF player base considerably that most USF players are die hard fans of the faction creating a smaller concentrated group of experienced players that tend to be significantly more skilled than players of other factions. You have much more people playing Axis for either faction than USF including the baddies which makes the numbers look more even than they actually do.

Any nerf USF has received were straight nerfs outright gutting entire units. When was the last time anyone made a Stuart or M20? Compared to T-70 or AEC which show up at least 50% of the time. Meanwhile every single Axis Unit is good at its intended role most USF things in general have no role and if they do they are the worst at that role compared to every faction. Even the meme OKW IR Spotlight Track that was a joke for so long became a good unit. Meanwhile USF are stuck with array of sub-par units like Rear Echelon which are almost universally agreed upon to be useless with the only saving grace being that they can carry weapons like the Bazooka.

Now if you look at UKF they have a similar weapon rack system but you never hear UKF players complain that Royal Engineers are useless because unlike Rear Echelon, Royal Engineers serve a purpose and have an actual/important role in the army while Rear Echelon do not besides being Cache Builder and their to repair the Pershing if you happen to be brave enough to pick that Commander.

USF lacks design focus and rely on crutch units like the Jackson or Calliope to remain remotely competitive. It is a house of cards waiting to fall.

As far as Infantry Goes, why go USF when I can play Soviets with Penals which are not only better but have access to superior support weapons such as 2CP DSHK. I also don't need to worry about Calliope as I have Katyusha which is cheaper and better (since Calliope had its cooldown nerfed multiple times). I can also get Shock Troops which are rangers that don't cost ammo to upgrade.

UKF also have Raid Sections now which are better than Rifleman while having easier access to MG (though the Vickers is rather shit at least it is easier to access) and easier access to AT Guns which are not only significantly better but don't cost ammo to actually use. Even without Raid Sections you are not handicapped by having the trash Rear Echelon squad at the start so you can build momentum up faster by having more viable squads out on the field (similar to OKW) while getting much better tanks later on.

Besides ambulance there is literally no reason to have a USF player on your team as they bring nothing but mediocrity as anything unique or special that they once had has been gutted. Hell UKF even has better Air Strikes than USF now that the P47 has been gutted into the ground. Which is misleading because every USF trailer came out showcased USF air strikes making you think USF actually has a good array of air power to choose from but they don't even win on that front.




It is also unfair for you to bash the balance team regarding there unfair treatment of USF, i distinctly remember OKW having volks timing and MP nerfs early game SOLEY for USF who where struggling with mass volk swarm while UKF and soviets were fine with it. OKW early game was nerfed solely for USF.


This is a perfect example and an excellent case as to why the balance team is an epic failure. Broad changes have broad consequences. OKW struggled with Maxims. They give OKW buffs to address Maxims, now USF struggles vs OKW. So Balance Team decides to buff rifleman, now rifleman dominate grenadiers. Rifleman then get nerfed. The balance team creates an endless cycle creating further imbalance instead of doing targeted surgical buffs like COH 1 did.

So in the instance where USF were struggling vs OKW I would have given Rifleman or Rear Echelon either an accuracy buff or recieved accuracy buff only vs the specific units that are causing the imbalance. This way we solve the actual issue without creating further issues with other factions causing an endless cycle of nonsense.

Take another situation as an example. Lets take a current hot topic like the M8 Scott as an example. USF struggle with team weapon spam which forces them to pick Calliope every single game. Since we know Calliope wont be made non doctrinal the same way the HMG-34 was made non doctrinal for OKW for being forced to pick a commander for a specific unit every game and we cannot expect to have equal access to basic tools rather than address the problem the balance team will do a song and dance and adjust numbers. New numbers are just an illusion that don't actually fix the damn problem.

How about Giving the M8 Scott a (random number as an example)50% damage penalty vs normal infantry squads but a 50% damage bonus vs Team Weapons. Granted Katyusha/Panzerwerfer/Stuka don't have such a limitation and can delete entire units but this is USF which can't have equal access to useful things.


Anyway this approach would not only make sense but solve the issue of Team Weapon Spam while not deleting the entire Axis Army for all the cry babies who like to cry about their units being deleted while having the ability to do so themselves.

This approach would require fairly advanced knowledge of the Modding Tools instead of employing simple number changing that they typically do (We don't even have accurate tooltips so my expectation of the balance team is rather low considering fixing tooltips is a low effort task) but we don't get actual solutions to issues from the balance team, only smoke and mirrors while lacking the foresight to prevent future problems such as the changes they made to SturmTiger.
7 Sep 2021, 04:38 AM
#97
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176



Zook spam with a calliope is cheese, and probably the only viable late game solution to axis tanks + elite blobs USF has, but it's still counterable. A well timed Stuka, ober poison smoke can deny cover to cover pushes, especially since you know where they're going. All you have to do is predict the Calliope barrage. After that, the US player will have absolutely no AI, you can easily push them back. Problem is, a lot of players play with half a brain cell and are easy to predict. Don't know how you play, but complaining about a player that spends about 60 population on 2 units is hilarious. Cheese? Sure. But not some HC non-counterable cheese like STiger or Elefant/Jagd.

USF is the easiest to win against in teamgames. Even if you're slightly below the skill level, you should win with superior infantry/tanks. USF can only rely on cheese to win in teamgames.


Im sure Im below the average
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173263375042740227/879044219128410122/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173263375042740227/870335567504744468/208717984_817306758924102_2571753250849924646_n.png
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=4250799918368294&set=gm.4523067221079790

Perhaps Im not salty about how powerful that strat is. Mostly salty about how easy to input with such a powerful output.
- I want to delete this tank/building, Cover to Cover, Ranger rush.
- If any tank on the way, delete it. If any infantry on the way calliop it.
- Complete deleting a tank, hit T.
Just zero micro skill.
7 Sep 2021, 08:07 AM
#98
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1

Can we give it rest with these theories:

USF (or axis) players are the best player, axis (or allied) players are noobs. There are really non constructive.

What percentage of player even plays a single side?
7 Sep 2021, 08:51 AM
#99
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



Im sure Im below the average
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173263375042740227/879044219128410122/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173263375042740227/870335567504744468/208717984_817306758924102_2571753250849924646_n.png
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=4250799918368294&set=gm.4523067221079790

Perhaps Im not salty about how powerful that strat is. Mostly salty about how easy to input with such a powerful output.
- I want to delete this tank/building, Cover to Cover, Ranger rush.
- If any tank on the way, delete it. If any infantry on the way calliop it.
- Complete deleting a tank, hit T.
Just zero micro skill.


These are not really proofs of anything. I've had 3x the damage output in low rank games where I get paired with 5 rank 5000+ which are barely able to control two units at a time.

Calliopes have a cooldown and there is a population cap of 100 + probably no snare. Good micro with a brummbar will absolutely wreck any zook blobs. OKW needs to go for the stuka and P4 combo.
7 Sep 2021, 09:05 AM
#100
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176



These are not really proofs of anything. I've had 3x the damage output in low rank games where I get paired with 5 rank 5000+ which are barely able to control two units at a time.

Calliopes have a cooldown and there is a population cap of 100 + probably no snare. Good micro with a brummbar will absolutely wreck any zook blobs. OKW needs to go for the stuka and P4 combo.


You can micro a single Pz4 to deal with 9 zooks in Cover to Cover?
Whats the shooting range or Brumbar & Zook? Whats the running speed of Brumbar & infantry in Cover to Cover?

You dont get what I mean, 9 zook Ranger isnt a big problem. 9 Zook Ranger with Cover to Cover is the problem. The speed boost it gives, the ability to pass through MG crew & MG nest.
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