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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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2 Apr 2021, 08:15 AM
#61
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 841 | Subs: 1

Riegel mine is still not worth a full commander slot. This mine is already gated behind a vehicle, I think we can safely bundle it with another small ability.
I once suggested the forward observation post, but defense fortifications or breakthrough equipment (buildable by pios) would fit as well.


+1 Very good idea and I hope it makes it to the 1.1 version.


Nice patch all in all. I am really looking forward to it!
German Mechanized is absolutely underwhelimg. Nothing for lategame and nothing with high impact.


I agree with this judgement. Compared to other commanders Mechanized dont offers enough to justity a pick. Mortar HT as Manteuffel suggested instead of the 250 would be a good decision. That would make the smoke bombs superfluous and would give you 1 commander slot more to fill.
2 Apr 2021, 09:15 AM
#62
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Id like if the foward observation post for 251 would camo infantry in its near vicinity. It should NOT give ambush damage, but work as way to regroup to reinforce near front and reward soft retreating when its used well.
2 Apr 2021, 09:29 AM
#63
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

Id like if the foward observation post for 251 would camo infantry in its near vicinity. It should NOT give ambush damage, but work as way to regroup to reinforce near front and reward soft retreating when its used well.


I mean why not just give it a forward retreat at this point to actually make it useful?

Ost is the only Army without one right now anyway.
2 Apr 2021, 09:46 AM
#64
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17634 | Subs: 9



I mean why not just give it a forward retreat at this point to actually make it useful?

Ost is the only Army without one right now anyway.

Ost is also the only army that can get mobile forward reinforcement by 5th minute and "regular" forward reinforcement pretty much as soon as they have 60 muni.

They don't have forward retreat point, because they don't need it, they have no problem staying ground if you actually utilize these options.
2 Apr 2021, 09:52 AM
#65
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789


Ost is also the only army that can get mobile forward reinforcement by 5th minute and "regular" forward reinforcement pretty much as soon as they have 60 muni.

They don't have forward retreat point, because they don't need it, they have no problem staying ground if you actually utilize these options.



They may have these, but because 4 man squads are so squashy hitting retreat is often necessary to not get wiped. 4 man squads are fine, but they do not work well with soft retreating.
2 Apr 2021, 09:53 AM
#66
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2


Ost is also the only army that can get mobile forward reinforcement by 5th minute and "regular" forward reinforcement pretty much as soon as they have 60 muni.

They don't have forward retreat point, because they don't need it, they have no problem staying ground if you actually utilize these options.


Because 1v1s and 2v2s are the only maps in the game and there are no large team maps where this would come in use or give the mobile post an actual purpose instead of just a gimmick.
2 Apr 2021, 12:04 PM
#67
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Riegel mine is still not worth a full commander slot. This mine is already gated behind a vehicle, I think we can safely bundle it with another small ability.

I once suggested the forward observation post


We were discussing merging MOP and Riegels into a "251 package", but it would require some tweaks. For example MOP not stacking with spotting scopes. But I think it'd be real nice to merge them.
2 Apr 2021, 12:08 PM
#68
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



We were discussing merging MOP and Riegels into a "251 package", but it would require some tweaks. For example MOP not stacking with spotting scopes. But I think it'd be real nice to merge them.

What MOP gonna replace in Jaeger Armor recon overflight????
Kinda off topic what about merging 250 with Mortar HT and giving them same requirement to be built from the HQ.
2 Apr 2021, 12:13 PM
#69
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17634 | Subs: 9


What MOP gonna replace in Jaeger Armor recon overflight????

Good suggestion, we should go with it. Planes don't fit armor doctrines.
2 Apr 2021, 12:15 PM
#70
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

What MOP gonna replace in Jaeger Armor recon overflight????


No, it would get merged into the Riegel mine slot.
2 Apr 2021, 12:17 PM
#71
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



No, it would get merged into the Riegel mine slot.
So will this give reigal mines to HT in Srategic reserves too.
2 Apr 2021, 12:17 PM
#72
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Yes. And to Mobile Defense that just got the MOP added.
2 Apr 2021, 12:23 PM
#73
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1

Yes. And to Mobile Defense that just got the MOP added.

I would rather make the ability more AT designed and combine it with:
Riegiel for PG
Clock for Packs (no first strike bonuses)

If you go with MOP change the vehicles into an call-in available even without T2 building instead of an upgrade.
2 Apr 2021, 12:27 PM
#74
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

I wonder how many revisions the commander patch is gonna get. When is set to release anyway.
2 Apr 2021, 12:43 PM
#75
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2935 | Subs: 2



We were discussing merging MOP and Riegels into a "251 package", but it would require some tweaks. For example MOP not stacking with spotting scopes. But I think it'd be real nice to merge them.


I hope this goes through. Would be at least a doctrinal solution of making one light vehicle useful for the late game.


I also saw that the mechanized assault group (PGrens+250) is still unchanged. I assume this one is still under discussion?
2 Apr 2021, 12:43 PM
#76
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1

0sttruppen


Imo the unit should be designed for more utility than fighting capability.

Suggestion:

Change the unit to be ideal crews for support weapons increasing synergy with weapon drops.

Change target size 1

Change aim to make them ideal for manning support weapons and allowing to be produces in late game when their target size of the unvetted squad turns them useless.


Add a squad penalty of target size 1.25 when the unit is in cover.
That should bring the performance back to current level.

Scrap the LMG upgrade, since concentrate DPS is not a good design for large entities squads.
Allow an upgrade that remove the cover mechanism completely and buff their weapons to fire as if in cover always.

Rebalance the rifle's performance in cover if needed.

Possibly add a grenade or molov or merge

The change will add utility the squad and allow them to be useful for the duration of the game.
2 Apr 2021, 15:57 PM
#77
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1853 | Subs: 1

Riegel mine is still not worth a full commander slot. This mine is already gated behind a vehicle, I think we can safely bundle it with another small ability.
I once suggested the forward observation post, but defense fortifications or breakthrough equipment (buildable by pios) would fit as well.

I am very happy that the Jager Command squad got into a sevond commander (it is one of the best units OST can offer - durable, strong, provides recon but not cheesy), but I am slightly unhappy that of all things the Riegel had to give up one of its two slots. There are many other abilities that occur 3 times and more. If we want diverse commanders, we should swap those high frequency abilities for less frequently used ones, not swap within the lesser used



This was my initial reaction as well. I do find it kind of odd that they added Jaeger to another commander with ambush training so Storm feels kind of same-y now since both have 2/5 slots the same and Light Arty and Stuka Bomb have similar role of off map Munitions ability. I get that it makes sense thematically with the Commander name and isn't a huge deal but I'd kind of preferred if new slots didn't overlap as much.
2 Apr 2021, 16:25 PM
#78
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 132

I hope something can be done to improve the CAS commander. Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine got a lot of excellent changes that have made it way more appealing but the CAS commander has pretty much gotten zero changes. It needs something. Maybe it could have the supply drop replaced with something else to generate extra munitions that is more reliable?
2 Apr 2021, 17:44 PM
#79
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112

Concrete Bunker:

Letting an MG bunker reinforce on the front just seems . . . weird and I can see a self-reinforced mortar team camped behind.

Suggestion: Remove reinforcing from the MG bunker. Add a 'forward CP' upgrade'.

Grants reinforcing, several medics and a forward retreat (OST doesn't have one yet)
2 Apr 2021, 18:33 PM
#80
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1

Forward Resupply Station


Also allows the construction of repair bunker not mention on notes.

Suggestions:
Always one aura are bad, make the aura timed, reduce number of pioneer to 4 reduce fuel cost to 30, set health of building to set level 75-100%.

Can now build concrete bunker for 200 manpower. Upgrades:
1) Repair for 100 manpower
2) medic for free.
Can drop medic kits similar to soviet rally point
Can upgrade as Forward retreat point reacquiring T3 or BP 3 and reinforcement point for 100 manpower
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