Pathfinders have a own bulletin and a second one if you bought Ardennes Assault and finished campaign with Able company. They can’t use the Riflemen bulletins.
Personally I do like any variation of the boring 3x Rifle standard opening. So a Pathfinder opening is welcomed. I would vote for 0 CP Cavalry Rifles with upgrades locked by tech too. More variation means more strategy and tactics and that is a good thing. There have to be ways to counter Pathfinder of course but I can see this counters, so I don’t see a general problem with Pathfinder openings. Of course you have to adapt. A defensive MG/mortar build won’t work very well. Grens with LMG upgrade (once MU is available) will work way better. If there is a lot cover where Pathfinders will stay and fire a supporting mortar could work out. Force into trading whenever possible since Pathfinder are expensive at reinforcing. Playing OKW Kubels are a great answer to Pathfinder openings, Pathfinders are way worse vs Kubel than Rifles are.
That are only nondoctrinal answers to a doctrinal thread. Try sprinting Assgrens for example, you’ll really drive Pathfinders back with them. Different openings require different answers. It would be boring if you could react always the same way with your standard build to different openings of your opponent.
Edit: It is sad already, that WC51 openings got nerfed a little bit too harsh to be of any relevance now. Nerfing Pathfinders would lead to another opening disappearing.
You call 30MP reinforcement cost for a 4 men squad expensive? Cool! Then OKW Jägers are SUPER-expensive with 35MP cost...
And your whole argumentation targets at a skillful playstyle. Sorry, but we talk about players with very much skill and even they struggle hard and have almost no chance. So don't argue with skill and l2p issues. Thats none of the reason.
At this point I should clarify the core of the issue. It's not solely about Pathfinders themselves. It's about the very abusive combo with M8 Scotts, Packhowitzers, MGs and AT guns. As Axis you MUST play with weapon teams. But this combo is a hardcounter to weapon teams. So in order to not nerfing all USF weapon teams (which is nonsense) the only chance to fix this, is nerfing Pathfinders.
Well I can speak for 2vs2 on your behalf consider my team is level 17 with 7 replays on tightrope channel so I myself got some exp in high level 2vs2.
Usually my Axis team see this pattern:
1. Pathfinder x2 + Rifleman x1 OR Pathfinder x3
2. .50cal from Tier 2 OR airdrop for Pathfinder to pick up
3. Flak Halftrack
4. AT gun x1 or x2 + BAR upgrade for Pathfinder
5. M8 x2 or x3
6. M36 Jackson
And this is pure cancer build: with Panthfinder ready at 0CP, my Ostheer MG42 is useless because they already spot it before I can spot pathfinder and later in the game as Ostheer I would just bleed out from the M8 spam.
Tbh whenever my team play 2vs2 and I see (and feel) that the USF gonna play Pathfinder spam I'm just gonna switch side with my OKW mate so he can use JLI to counter this (They come out at 1CP, can detect camo unit + also got 50 sight + can snip the shit out of them). My mate usually mix JLI with Ober in order to kill this Pathfinder quickly.
So yeah, either my mate switch side and deal with USF or I say fork it and play a name match. As Ostheer player and at my current level, I'm not capable of dealing with this atm IF my enemies are good at abuse Pathfdiner spam in 2vs2.
Same for me an my mate yesterday. We played pretty well in the beginning. We took out Clown Car from Sov player and got good map control. USF started with 3 Pathfinders. My Jägers could hardly fight them but with Luchs support, I had a small chance. But as soon as the AT gun was on the field, Luchs was useless. You cannot flank or attack anymore, just a waste of fuel. And then, few mins later, 3 Scotts were on the field. 2 of my Jägers got wiped out with single shots. GG, game over. This game pretty sucks right now and it has absolutely nothing to do with skill. Its just abusing a pretty bad balanced combo: Pathfinders + M8 Scott.
Making Pathfinders 1CP like Jägers would help by a lot. So USF players would need to build some core ifnantry units like all the others....
That would be great...
watch the match
Okay cool, so if my enemy is braindead and has absolutely no idea what "cover" means, then I have a chance. Thanks for the pro tip!
And of course, there is no issue with Pathfinders. Almost every USF player right now picks Airborne commander and just builds 3-4 of them, because the models have such cool skins and voices. Thats the only reason and not their incredibly strong performance....
Has anybody noticed? As I remember, it should be CoH2.org and not ######, shouldn't it?
this pretty much. reaching vet 3 with the cmnd panther already feels like an eternity and i have rarely ever seen one getting to 5 stars. sure, the buffs it provides at vet 3 and onwards look great on paper, but getting there is an arduous task to say the least.
afaik the aura was recently changed to affect vehicles only, so it shouldn't affect the rak.
That's true for a vet 5 Command Panther, but you can easily get a vet 2 one. And even with vet 2, the Cmd Panther aura seems way sronger.
I personally liked the idea of buffing vehicles AND infantry with Tiger Command ability. This would have differed from the Cmd Panther Aura and justified the price and low aura range. In the current state, IMO its almost useless, just because its range (35/40) is way too short to synergize with other vehicles, especially in 2v2 with a mate.
What aura ranges does Cmd Panzer 4 and british cmd vehicle have? Maybe equalising it would help a lot.
The command panther has worse veterancy compared to the standard panther. On top of it the command panther doesnt benefit from the aura (as far as i know). In the end its a worse panther with mark target, that buffs other units.
On the other side is the command tiger more or less the same as the default tiger from Ost. And it doesnt get debuffed from the ability anymore. So you have a full working tiger with a nice aoe buff ability.
Its probably a little underwhelming, but its still nice to have and the current state is better than the thing being owerpowered.
The Command Tiger itself neither benefits from its ability.
I wonder why the Command Tiger ability seems so underpowered compared to Command Panther aura. This thread has nothing to do with Axis/Allies OP plz nerf/buff OMG.... It's just a comparison between 2 abilities of the same fraction.
Command Panther Aura:
- range 80
- for free
- +15 sight range
- +10% speed
- +20% ac/de- celeration (with Vet 1)
Veterancy 2: additional +20% accuracy.
Veterancy 3: additional +20% reload speed.
Veterancy 4: additional +5 weapon range.
Veterancy 5: spread aura on infantry
Command Tiger Aura ability:
- range 35 (40 with Vet 2)
- 35 ammo
- +20% reload speed
- -20% received accuracy
- +20% accuracy
So in conclusion, the Command Panther has doubled range of aura, provides the same accuracy and reload bonus, gives more speed and is for free. On top of that, he exceeds sight range, buffs ac/de- celeration and extends weapon range. Furthermore, with Vet 5 it spreads to nearby infantry. The only bonus lacking is the -20% received accurcy....
Can anybody tell me, why this seems well balanced? I don't get it...
as you can see in Tightropes latest cast, my Pak43 seemed to be unable to shoot the abandoned Su85. My guess is, beeing able to shoot through obstacles, the Pak43 always shoots through it. Therefore abandoned vehicles might count as "obstacles". Maybe someone can check this out!
I am sorry, but this discussion moves into a false direction. As I said before, the problem of Pathfinders is not their weapon profile or sniper mechanic. They feel good and they are doing well!
My concerns are just their early and easy arriving and the possibility to upgrade them with heavy wepaons. Jägers are never capable of standing their ground versus allied core infantry. Their purpose is to scout and support from long range.
Pathfinders though can become a real threat to vehicles with double Zooks or shred down Volks and Grens with double BAR. All of that combined with their huge vision. That's NOT their purpose! USF got Airborne Rangers for that role. Pathfinders should be a supportive reconnaissance unit.
Therefore I suggested to town down their arrival, increase cooldown and withdraw their weapon slots. They will still be useful and powerful at long range, can snipe and spot the enemy. But Bazooka-Finders or BARfinders?? Really? ...