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Brummbar performance

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26 Mar 2021, 10:45 AM
#61
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1720



Ranger zook blob is a good way to get fucked by a brummbar.


ah no, cos zook has good range and speed of attack.

you can try it in 2v2.
26 Mar 2021, 11:57 AM
#62
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 547



The su85 isent a tank ;)


Neither is the stupa, but who gives a shit
28 Mar 2021, 09:17 AM
#63
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 991

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2021, 15:58 PMSpoof

I assume you are excluding the SU85.


Su85 is paper made TD with no rurret. Great and unfortunately Soviet only choice.

T34/76 can not endanger Brumbar enough. Brumbar is simply to fast and heavy armored.
28 Mar 2021, 18:25 PM
#64
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

are people really complaining about a 35 range AI tank ?
i mean with a bulletin the rifle man out range it with zook that's the lvl we are talking about
any light tank can beat it simply by range
28 Mar 2021, 21:19 PM
#65
avatar of Latch

Posts: 742

Problem with the Brum whenever I face it is that it bounces a hell of a lot of shots from both AT guns and the cromwells.

It might be balanced in 1v1's and maybe 2v2's but as I've been playing a lot of 3v3's it is very powerful in that game mode.

The rate at which it bounces shots + the fact it can be supported by TD's from either teammates or the same player due to the fast rate of fuel in team games means that saying "Go for TD's" doesn't really work.

Late game you then have to contend with a brum backed up by an ele, Jag or KT, and that's just a nightmare.
28 Mar 2021, 22:35 PM
#66
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 21:19 PMLatch
Problem with the Brum whenever I face it is that it bounces a hell of a lot of shots from both AT guns and the cromwells


Cromwell yes, but that's obvious.

ATGs not so much.
Vet 0 ATGs have a 62-75% of penetrating a vet 0 Brummbar at max range (M1 using Sabot).
At vet 3 they have 78-85% of penetrating a vet 2 Brummbar at max range.
ZiS being the weakest, 6-pounder in the middle and M1 with Sabot having the highest chance.


Generally, two spaced out ATGs are enough to keep it at bay and will definitely out trade it in a (isolated) head-on engagement.
28 Mar 2021, 23:29 PM
#67
avatar of Latch

Posts: 742



Cromwell yes, but that's obvious.

ATGs not so much.
Vet 0 ATGs have a 62-75% of penetrating a vet 0 Brummbar at max range (M1 using Sabot).
At vet 3 they have 78-85% of penetrating a vet 2 Brummbar at max range.
ZiS being the weakest, 6-pounder in the middle and M1 with Sabot having the highest chance.


Generally, two spaced out ATGs are enough to keep it at bay and will definitely out trade it in a (isolated) head-on engagement.


Isolated, a situation that wil very rarely happen. An AEC could kill a Brum or an Ele in an isolated incident...
28 Mar 2021, 23:51 PM
#68
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Isolated as in balanced. With the ATGs protected. There's no way a Brummbar can realistically go in against two ATGs and expect to win, unless it gets exceptionally good RNG. Because unlike you claim, ATGs have (very) good chances to penetrate it even at max range. And that chance only goes up the further the Brummbar moves in to get shots off with its low 35 range.

Yes the Brummbar is great, and yes it can be hard to deal with.
But it does not bounce that many ATG shells.
28 Mar 2021, 23:55 PM
#69
avatar of Latch

Posts: 742

Isolated as in balanced. With the ATGs protected. There's no way a Brummbar can realistically go in against two ATGs and expect to win, unless it gets exceptionally good RNG. Because unlike you claim, ATGs have very good chances to penetrate it even at max range. And that chance only goes up the further the Brummbar moves in to get shots off with its low 35 range.

Yes the Brummbar is great, and yes it can be hard to deal with.
But it does not bounce that many ATG shells.


Isolated as in balanced? So the balance team wont be touching the Brumbar then I take it as its balanced? As I don't know how you can say something is balanced based off an ideal scenario...

It might have low range, easily penned by ATG's but you seem to forget maps being full of shot blockers, counters to ATG's being on the field, so on and so forth. With the logic of ideal scenario = balanced, then every unit in the game is balanced and no further changes need to be made, right?
29 Mar 2021, 00:49 AM
#70
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 547

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 23:55 PMLatch


Isolated as in balanced? So the balance team wont be touching the Brumbar then I take it as its balanced? As I don't know how you can say something is balanced based off an ideal scenario...

It might have low range, easily penned by ATG's but you seem to forget maps being full of shot blockers, counters to ATG's being on the field, so on and so forth. With the logic of ideal scenario = balanced, then every unit in the game is balanced and no further changes need to be made, right?



If the answer is yes will that stop your whinging?
29 Mar 2021, 02:00 AM
#71
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1720

i would say cromwell taking on a brumbar is way more effective than a p4 vs churchill or kv1.
29 Mar 2021, 02:12 AM
#72
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1261 | Subs: 4



My thoughts on the Brummbar
29 Mar 2021, 02:35 AM
#73
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1720

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2021, 21:19 PMLatch
Problem with the Brum whenever I face it is that it bounces a hell of a lot of shots from both AT guns and the cromwells.

It might be balanced in 1v1's and maybe 2v2's but as I've been playing a lot of 3v3's it is very powerful in that game mode.

The rate at which it bounces shots + the fact it can be supported by TD's from either teammates or the same player due to the fast rate of fuel in team games means that saying "Go for TD's" doesn't really work.

Late game you then have to contend with a brum backed up by an ele, Jag or KT, and that's just a nightmare.


it is weird thing you said

brumbar is strong in 1v1 because you cant afford AT wall or throwaway mediums

as you go further up team games, brumbar is super easy to deal with, barely an inconvenience

in 2v2 brumbar is just enough to deal with vetted allies infantry,just.
29 Mar 2021, 03:20 AM
#74
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4071 | Subs: 3

A simple cost increase by +10F or a small speed nerf and I'd call it good. The brummbar is really difficult to deal with when it's behind shot blockers over crucial points like center VP on redball. In those situations it's basically impossible to kill against a decent player without a complete breakthrough.
29 Mar 2021, 07:07 AM
#75
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 02:00 AMmrgame2
i would say cromwell taking on a brumbar is way more effective than a p4 vs churchill or kv1.

Brummbar and kv/churchill are so incomparable I don't even have anything to compare to.
What's the point even saying that?
29 Mar 2021, 07:51 AM
#76
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1720

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 07:07 AMKatitof

Brummbar and kv/churchill are so incomparable I don't even have anything to compare to.
What's the point even saying that?


any further nerf to brumbar also need to nerf kv and churchill which ost are finding hard to fight off and have lesser tools than allies vs brumbar
29 Mar 2021, 08:09 AM
#77
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 07:51 AMmrgame2


any further nerf to brumbar also need to nerf kv and churchill which ost are finding hard to fight off and have lesser tools than allies vs brumbar


Yes, less tools than the allies. PaKs, Panzer IV/70, Pupchen, StuG, PanzerSchrecks - absolutely inadequate tools.
29 Mar 2021, 08:39 AM
#78
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 782

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 08:09 AMTygrys


Yes, less tools than the allies. PaKs, Panzer IV/70, Pupchen, StuG, PanzerSchrecks - absolutely inadequate tools.


When did ostheer get the Jagdpanzer 4 and the raketen?
29 Mar 2021, 08:43 AM
#79
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 08:39 AMSerrith


When did ostheer get the Jagdpanzer 4 and the raketen?


I was talking about axis in general and that still leaves 3 anti tank sources. I didn't mention mines because that's obvious and Panthers because everyone would start screeching muh tier 4.
29 Mar 2021, 08:47 AM
#80
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2021, 07:51 AMmrgame2


any further nerf to brumbar also need to nerf kv and churchill which ost are finding hard to fight off and have lesser tools than allies vs brumbar

It is still completely unrelated and doesn't work that way.
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