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My respond to the accusations

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18 Mar 2021, 17:46 PM
#61
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3122 | Subs: 7

Sander confesses, he has not enough skill to judge, but also believes in hacking.


Heh, A_E misunderstood and misquoted me there (no problemo I don't mind).
I meant that I didn't have any experience judging cheating or knowledge about cheats, so therefor I didn't want my verdict to be conclusive with the potentially severe consequences for Seeking in mind. Ultimately I did not find any of the evidence overwhelmingly conclusive, but I did think that the sheer amount of these game sense / lucky moments was so high that it was very suspicious. So I kept that as my verdict.
18 Mar 2021, 17:46 PM
#62
avatar of LegioxRoma

Posts: 266

In all honesty, I also believe that you are cheating and your explanations don't help but make things worse.

Could you explain it?
Coz for what i see from both documents it doesnt seem so clear
18 Mar 2021, 17:47 PM
#63
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

IF sources like the TR inhouse cup are correct, Deadbolt (hacking or not) seems to be able to have a higher CPM than assumed previously. I dont know if Deadbolt or Seeking played those games with voice com to confirm they were the ones playing (cam seems very unliekely for a fun tournament)

The 1 year ban came from Seeking playing on Deadbolts account AFTER the warning. Its getting abit messy, did i miss the proof for this?


As far as I'm aware the "proof" is:

1) Seeking has high CPM
2) Deadbolt has high CPM in some replays, lower CPM in others
3) Therefore, Seeking = Deadbolt when Deadbolt has high CPM

Queue the banhammer.
18 Mar 2021, 17:49 PM
#64
avatar of Baba

Posts: 599

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 17:15 PMTobis

LOL

You could have said... Hang on I'm working on it.

You can go to court and refuse to say anything all the way through the trial, that doesn't mean people will wait for you.


can you please not compare this case with court?
at no point in time did seeking need to justify his actions or say anything at all.
There will never be a judge who finds him guilty, just a tourney organizer excluding him from his private event. and thats fair
18 Mar 2021, 17:50 PM
#65
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5384 | Subs: 28



Problem is Luvnest, noggano and some other players asked if they knew his name is put next to (- believes its maphack), he did not know and never agreed to put his name which could mean, they were not confident enough to give their verdict.


Or they were maybe just to scared, because some of them are / were friends of seeking. And ofc some of them never wanted to be the person, who pulls the trigger. Which is fullunderstandable and was never asked!

It worked fine in past, when i had contact with some of them about other maphacker cases. There i never made their names public about all the cases.

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 17:39 PMSeeking


Thats a fair point. This was the reason why i tried to talk with the most of the people in the playerlist. The players who got asked had to answer some clips which got provided by them and they had to say what they think. They never said its 100% hack. They said yes some clips are looking sus in their opinion but thats it. They did not even got asked if AE/Sturmpanther are allowed to use their names in the public document. Some of them are really pissed about this.


- They never said its 100% hack - ehm, they did? I have the screenshots for relic but ofc i never made PMs public. I don't do that, because i think its wrong to do it.

They did not even got asked if AE/Sturmpanther are allowed to use their names in the public document.
I agree because of everything went so fast and forward it was little bit bad and then AE video was live. Question were made few times but only in the groupchat. So some missed it. I agree better would be to ask in PM again each person.
For the 1 person, who was angry about it, I talked in private after the action.

What i dislike is now, that some people, maybe to look "better in seeking eyes or in the community" or something trying to say, they never said that they full believe its cheat. Because that is not true! I ignored that the last week, because i don't want to make shittalk and shitstorms now about each player or / and make the PMs public.
It is possible that after new stuff appeared they changed their mind, but not at the time it went public.


Is anyone even reading the defense atm to the single clips from seeking? Or just drama and shittalk


18 Mar 2021, 17:50 PM
#66
avatar of |GB| The Lnt.599

Posts: 314 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 17:10 PMA_E



I start that sentence with "hopefully..." and then later PM seeking with a clear way forward that he ignores. One that I put a lot of consideration into, and thought would be best for everyone.

Also that very video prominently displays Seeking's VOD in the description and comment, clearly showing willing to show both sides.


u mean statements he had to rush out for u to make a vid lol? What about the 'i will give him the time he needs'?? Or u mean the stream he rushed out to try to defend himself, while he didnt took the time he need to provide a sufficient answer.

In that fragment u talked about a doc being published/ beingin the works. And not just a doc that seeking rushed out like that stream, a well prepaired doc that goes into all the clips after he took the time for himself to refresh his memory. nah you rather show either info that u pushed him into rushing out (while u promised him time), or u show some ill prepared rushed out seeking-vod. Its not up to u to decide for seaking what bit of his points gets attention and what not. Specially when it was obvious that he wasnt done yet because the main point is the doc, and u did not give him the opportuniy to show that, instead u just dont care.

if u were really willing for seeking to tell his story u would have actually let him do that after he prepared it properly.
18 Mar 2021, 17:53 PM
#67
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3122 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 17:39 PMSeeking
They did not even got asked if AE/Sturmpanther are allowed to use their names in the public document.


I obviously can't speak for the others, but Sturmpanther did ask me in private if it was okay if they put me and my verdict in the document before they published it.

18 Mar 2021, 17:53 PM
#68
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2298 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 17:49 PMBaba


can you please not compare this case with court?
at no point in time did seeking need to justify his actions or say anything at all.
There will never be a judge who finds him guilty, just a tourney organizer excluding him from his private event. and thats fair

I think claiming to be using his right to remain silent as some sort of gotcha like it's a real police investigation is silly.
18 Mar 2021, 17:55 PM
#69
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273




Is anyone even reading the defense atm to the single clips from seeking? Or just drama and shittalk





I did. I watched the videos from the other thread, and i watched/read the reasons why, and I think there were better defences to the case in the other thread than by seeking himself. he sums it up to coincidence and skill.
1 of 2 Relic postsRelic 18 Mar 2021, 17:59 PM
#70
avatar of JohnT_RE
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 59 | Subs: 13

Cross-posting from here.

Hi everyone.

We had hoped that this thread would be a civil discussion, but as it's turning to personal attacks and toxic behavior, it's become clear we need to step in.

To be clear; we have reviewed all evidence shared with us and we will continue to do so for any additional information that is put forward. We're also continuing to investigate via our internal cheat & hack detection tools.

We continue to appreciate all input from the community, and your vigilance in upholding the game's integrity and fair play among players. However, we must reiterate that the final responsibility and decision for any action taken lies with us. We've recently been focusing on moderation action, you can read more about it here on the official forums: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/247033/moderation-enforcement-update

We continue to welcome your reports and feedback, but ask that these are handled professionally while respecting the privacy and dignity of all parties.
18 Mar 2021, 18:02 PM
#71
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 276

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 17:47 PMCieZ


As far as I'm aware the "proof" is:

1) Seeking has high CPM
2) Deadbolt has high CPM in some replays, lower CPM in others
3) Therefore, Seeking = Deadbolt when Deadbolt has high CPM

Queue the banhammer.


I understand that part
but which are the replays/CPM from the games Seeking allegedly played on Deadbolts account after the warning?


As far as i understand it in AEs follow up video he only explains that Seeking has a higher CPM than Seeking
18 Mar 2021, 18:04 PM
#72
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1461 | Subs: 2

I think anyone who knows AE can say he is excitable and says silly things. Especially after a few beers maybe?

But ML is his thing. All he has to say is Seeking is not aloud to play. End of story.

While it feels a little dirty, it has to be said that, AE is going above and beyond to try and create a legit means to handle this type of thing in the future. He is not getting paid for any of this and could have easily just said "Banned! It is not worth my time dealing with all this BS."

To be clear, what was the original intent of all of this?

To let ML patreon backers be the judge since it is their tournament money? If so, then all of the clips need to be reviewed publicly and with scrutiny so they can make a valid decision.

But even that is now defunct due to the Deadbolt accusations. But those are not going to be scrutinized?
18 Mar 2021, 18:06 PM
#73
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 454 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 17:46 PMSeeking


Why should i take any of your offer when u displace me in the public eye as a gulity person. You gave me the opportunity to defend myself and then coming out of nowhere to make a deal. In that case i wanted to be silent and concentrate on my document instead of giving you a reply. You also stated "who gives a fuck" about my document. You made this public and i have my right to show my side and people were waiting for it. But u justifiy ur proceeding because i didn't respond?



Fascinating. Are you saying you lack the effort to write a single sentence to AE, which would not take more than 30 seconds?

More interestingly is the besmirching on A_Es character, looking at the document at hand. Taking screenshots for ants, to make it really hard to read what he actually wrote (Intentional? If not pls fix )

http://prntscr.com/10p9j17 Also, this is just a blatant attempt to discredit him, the guy literally offered you an interview, asked you if it was OKAY to upload it. Posted the link to your stream (Of which you ironically were also very 'emotionally unstable') And also trying to make him out to be some sort of psychopath who would try to change the document mid-way through to make it more dramatic. Of which the probable reason he actually did that was because of the youtube comments thinking it meant tightrope,luvnest amongst others which made it look like they were accussed of cheating. So it was probably clearing that up.

Also using private messages to try and paint him out as someone really awful? Jeez, but this actually makes me think. Is it not hypocritical to fling shit at AE for not fully releasing the top player thoughts in full without permission, but then immediately not only grab private DMs he had talked in but also along sturmpanthers and gaddafis convos as well?

Did you ask Gaddafi for permission? Sturmpanther? Did you approach them and ask if it was okay?
The most likely answer is no.

That last part also goes to you kimbo, very hypocritical to leak private conversations without asking the person involved :/

18 Mar 2021, 18:07 PM
#74
avatar of berkeley

Posts: 23

i have heard rumors that satup is not deadbolt, and flap did not even confirmed that, is that true?
18 Mar 2021, 18:07 PM
#75
avatar of Flap

Posts: 9



Which is fair. The problem is that in both Kimbo's and Flap's case I hit a funny bone with the particular game and they refused to say anything.



I never refused to answer any of your questions. As I already told you:

"idk, its not like I had to reason to think the other way
we were playing games and I always thought its Deadbolt"

You were asking about specific games, so I tried to do my best to recall the game and give correct answer, when I was not on discord with Deadbolt or we were not talking (it's difficult to talk to Deadbolt because of his english) so in some cases I said I could not be sure, since I just cannot know or even remember.
18 Mar 2021, 18:08 PM
#76
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 557

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 18:04 PMRosbone
I think anyone who knows AE can say he is excitable and says silly things. Especially after a few beers maybe?

But ML is his thing. All he has to say is Seeking is not aloud to play. End of story.

While it feels a little dirty, it has to be said that, AE is going above and beyond to try and create a legit means to handle this type of thing in the future. He is not getting paid for any of this and could have easily just said "Banned! It is not worth my time dealing with all this BS."

To be clear, what was the original intent of all of this?

To let ML patreon backers be the judge since it is their tournament money? If so, then all of the clips need to be reviewed publicly and with scrutiny so they can make a valid decision.

But even that is now defunct due to the Deadbolt accusations. But those are not going to be scrutinized?


This and the VonManTueffel guy are speaking sense. A_E its your tournament, you're the organizer, and your people thought he was cheating so why don't YOU make the decision and end it sheesh.

Just never let the community get involved again, should've kept it down low till the final decision.
18 Mar 2021, 18:10 PM
#77
avatar of SturmTigerGaddafi
Benefactor 355

Posts: 760 | Subs: 3

Cross-posting from here.

Hi everyone.

We had hoped that this thread would be a civil discussion, but as it's turning to personal attacks and toxic behavior, it's become clear we need to step in.

To be clear; we have reviewed all evidence shared with us and we will continue to do so for any additional information that is put forward. We're also continuing to investigate via our internal cheat & hack detection tools.

We continue to appreciate all input from the community, and your vigilance in upholding the game's integrity and fair play among players. However, we must reiterate that the final responsibility and decision for any action taken lies with us. We've recently been focusing on moderation action, you can read more about it here on the official forums: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/247033/moderation-enforcement-update

We continue to welcome your reports and feedback, but ask that these are handled professionally while respecting the privacy and dignity of all parties.


Took you long enough.
18 Mar 2021, 18:11 PM
#78
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 303



This and the VonManTueffel guy are speaking sense. A_E its your tournament, you're the organizer, and your people thought he was cheating so why don't YOU make the decision and end it sheesh.

Just never the community get involved again, should've kept it down low till the final decision.


what money does he pay the players with? maybe some of those guys wanna see seeking play, so its not really so simple
18 Mar 2021, 18:11 PM
#79
avatar of VonManteuffel

Posts: 77



Heh, A_E misunderstood and misquoted me there (no problemo I don't mind).
I meant that I didn't have any experience judging cheating or knowledge about cheats, so therefor I didn't want my verdict to be conclusive with the potentially severe consequences for Seeking in mind. Ultimately I did not find any of the evidence overwhelmingly conclusive, but I did think that the sheer amount of these game sense / lucky moments was so high that it was very suspicious. So I kept that as my verdict.


I am sorry about that misunderstandment, I never wanted to disrespect your skill! I was just according to A_Es document.


Can we just get some public statments from the quoted top players? Luvnest, Noggano, DevM, Isildur, Artavick and the others? I would also like to hear some thoughts from some popular casters, like Tightrope and maybe Imperial Dane?

And most important, can we hear ed80hertz, why he gives benefit of doubt about this issue? Sander already explained his decision.

18 Mar 2021, 18:12 PM
#80
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1461 | Subs: 2

This and the VonManTueffel guy are speaking sense. A_E its your tournament, you're the organizer, and your people thought he was cheating so why don't YOU make the decision and end it sheesh.

I am saying that doing this publicly makes sense if the patreon backers were going to vote. If so, then AE should be commended for taking all this on. I am sure he is busy in RL.

And then I am asking what is next? Is the Deadbolt thing under a vote also?
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