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My respond to the accusations

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18 Mar 2021, 18:17 PM
#81
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5383 | Subs: 28

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 18:07 PMFlap



I never refused to answer any of your questions. As I already told you:

"idk, its not like I had to reason to think the other way
we were playing games and I always thought its Deadbolt"

You were asking about specific games, so I tried to do my best to recall the game and give correct answer, when I was not on discord with Deadbolt or we were not talking (it's difficult to talk to Deadbolt because of his english) so in some cases I said I could not be sure, since I just cannot know or even remember.


You told me: I am unable to answer your question

and then never responsed again to me ;)

You added the satup account on steam and played with him. So you have to know who it is!
18 Mar 2021, 18:17 PM
#82
avatar of maskedmonkey2

Posts: 262

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 18:12 PMRosbone

I am saying that doing this publicly makes sense if the patreon backers were going to vote. If so, then AE should be commended for taking all this on. I am sure he is busy in RL.

And then I am asking what is next? Is the Deadbolt thing under a vote also?


No, he pretended to present the evidence to the backers but made a Unilateral decision yesterday to ban Seeking for a year for playing on the Deadbolt account based on NOTHING but shaky apm evidence (which seeking has adequately refuted IMO)
18 Mar 2021, 18:22 PM
#83
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3254 | Subs: 1




Fascinating. Are you saying you lack the effort to write a single sentence to AE, which would not take more than 30 seconds?

More interestingly is the besmirching on A_Es character, looking at the document at hand. Taking screenshots for ants, to make it really hard to read what he actually wrote (Intentional? If not pls fix )

http://prntscr.com/10p9j17 Also, this is just a blatant attempt to discredit him, the guy literally offered you an interview, asked you if it was OKAY to upload it. Posted the link to your stream (Of which you ironically were also very 'emotionally unstable') And also trying to make him out to be some sort of psychopath who would try to change the document mid-way through to make it more dramatic. Of which the probable reason he actually did that was because of the youtube comments thinking it meant tightrope,luvnest amongst others which made it look like they were accussed of cheating. So it was probably clearing that up.

Also using private messages to try and paint him out as someone really awful? Jeez, but this actually makes me think. Is it not hypocritical to fling shit at AE for not fully releasing the top player thoughts in full without permission, but then immediately not only grab private DMs he had talked in but also along sturmpanthers and gaddafis convos as well?

Did you ask Gaddafi for permission? Sturmpanther? Did you approach them and ask if it was okay?
The most likely answer is no.

That last part also goes to you kimbo, very hypocritical to leak private conversations without asking the person involved :/



If you can't fight the logic, attack the person.
18 Mar 2021, 18:36 PM
#84
avatar of Deadboltt

Posts: 60



You told me: I am unable to answer your question

and then never responsed again to me ;)

You added the satup account on steam and played with him. So you have to know who it is!


dear sturmpanther

I don't know what your mission is you flap on all the time even though he wasn't even there.

if you are in your opinion that i hack send replay to relic what also but leave the people alone we all know that you have attention disturbance
18 Mar 2021, 18:38 PM
#85
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Both deadboltt and Seeking are openly being rude and insulting the other party on every possible occasion both in the forum and in the attached document. Just for being rude to the organiser you deserve being kicked out.

Why is this thread still open? Or are all civilities thrown out of the window?
18 Mar 2021, 18:44 PM
#86
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5383 | Subs: 28



dear sturmpanther

I don't know what your mission is you flap on all the time even though he wasn't even there.

if you are in your opinion that i hack send replay to relic what also but leave the people alone we all know that you have attention disturbance


:S

So in the satup/ flap game flap was not there? Who was then playing on flap account?
https://www.coh2.org/replay/107725/top-55-at-using-maphack-keep-looking-into-fow

So who was on flap account, when satup guy got added in steam?

How can you know that he was not there?
18 Mar 2021, 18:49 PM
#87
avatar of Currahee
Tournament Director Badge

Posts: 188 | Subs: 2

Oh boy, This is sad and frustrating situation which disappoints me!

I think that I have good relationship with nearly everyone in this community and its shocking that after years and years I'm part of this community, nothing has changed. I guess its typical for an Online community to seek drama and not trying to comunicate in a decent matter. All in all I look at this Pile of broken glass (called Community of Company of Heroes 2) and hope that we will find a way out of this mess. If not then unfortunately I have to make my own conclusions and decisions.

Sincerely Currahee
18 Mar 2021, 19:12 PM
#88
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1865

Both deadboltt and Seeking are openly being rude and insulting the other party on every possible occasion both in the forum and in the attached document. Just for being rude to the organiser you deserve being kicked out.

Why is this thread still open? Or are all civilities thrown out of the window?


They appear to be, with the exception of some of the posters and Relic. Relic gave a gentle warning, in public, for people to cool down but it got largely ignored with the exception of one toxic reply. I'd bet their next response will be more direct.

I don't think the charges of racism against anyone at the ML or Relic were at all justified. Relic will have a higher standard for banning someone who has made money from tournaments because if they are banned unfairly, it opens Relic to liability. I would have done the same.
18 Mar 2021, 19:23 PM
#89
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2455 | Subs: 21


A_E
18 Mar 2021, 19:25 PM
#90
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 6

Can I just say any sentiment suggesting that I would ever, ever, target a player and ban them without wanting consensus or unfair process is nonsense. The only dog in this fight I have is wanting to see fair CoH competitions and not see behaviour that goes against this.

Sturmpanther was even reticent to include me in any analysis of Seeking as I was seen as having too much conflict of interest in wanting this particular player to prosper, and you know what, he was right to think that. It took me days before I even started to believe all the evidence. I was one of the last people to commit my opinion.

I have a long history of running tournaments dating back to September 2012 and to my credit although the handling of fair play allegations has always been amateurish at best, so many tournaments in CoH history have been marred with this bullshit. So many organisers have quit or been castigated. We had a really good run of form that felt too good to be true in ML's first year.

I would like to thank those who convinced me to drop any allegations of map hacking and focus only on what could be proven. I think that was 100% as the correct way forward, and the very first person I alerted that that's what I would be doing was Seeking himself.

In fairness to Relic although I remain annoyed over the Satup account, I can completely see their approach with Seeking as valid and think they managed things as well as they could. In a system where it takes a high IQ to play the game at the highest level, that same intelligence can be used to hide foul play, and you can't do anything about it. Only hardcore detection can prove anything.

The only evidence that we used and acted upon was as follows:

1) After initially lying, Seeking admitted to playing on his uncle's account/pc
2) Deadbolts account was boosted to top 5 on the 1v1 ladder on the eve of a tournament that relied on automatch entry.
3) His uncle was later shown to have a past of cheating (3 VAC bans), and publicly defended himself as the player 'satup' who was shown to be obviously cheating in a very transparent... use of map hacks.
4) The Deadbolt account easily won several games against high level 2v2 opponents with double the CPM than usual after the initial warning/ban, the opponents thought it was Seeking, and all analysis of the replays pointed towards someone other than Deadbolt (a rank 300ish player) playing. This was presented to Seeking, with no response.

As we currently sit: Seeking time banned from ML tournies for the above offenses and all map hack accusations dropped as the evidence is subjective. and with an already issued public apology from myself in the annoucnement... what's more to be said in all honesty?
18 Mar 2021, 19:26 PM
#91
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2


Really bad take. People donate money for the tourneys

Since you are in such a unique position of having to work for a living :rolleyes: , surely you must understand people caring about where the money goes


Hence why the 2nd part of my message which you've for some reason decided to omit in your quote and reply to me.

I'm just a casual player that enjoys the game after work to relax and chill out, I don't play in tournaments competitively for the money.

However I think that brings a different respective and take on it all looking from the sidelines, I just think that people are taking it too seriously.



Idk why you are surprised. There's a huge esports community that takes games more than just entertainment.

And dramas everywhere, just look at Twitch.

Although I agree with what you're saying, that's just what it is.


I never said I was surprised, I said that I kind of find it funny and sad at the same time.

And yeah the esports part of it is the problem I think, same with War Thunder.

Like they're trying so hard to be competitive in a very RNG based game where there's a lot of variables and playing that for money just... doesn't make sense at least for me.

Same with Team Fortress 2, the competitive scene doesn't make a sense in a cartoony looking game with a lot of bugs and unbalances with not to mention a randomly generated critical system as well.
18 Mar 2021, 19:27 PM
#92
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2455 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:25 PMA_E

As we currently sit: Seeking time banned for the above offenses and all map hack accusations dropped as the evidence is subjective with an already issued public apology from myself in the annoucnement... what's more to be said in all honesty?

Is he still suspended for a year from playing in ML?
A_E
18 Mar 2021, 19:30 PM
#93
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:27 PMVonIvan

Is he still suspended for a year from playing in ML?


I won't be making any further comment whilst this remains such an emotional issue, I fear it would just lead to bad decisions. Let's give it time to settle down a little.
18 Mar 2021, 19:34 PM
#94
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5383 | Subs: 28

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:27 PMVonIvan

Is he still suspended for a year from playing in ML?


I just can speak for myself here.
From what i see almost nobody went through all the arguements from seeking, since many people just focused on the shitstorm.

From some people i hearded, that in all his arugments are just: gamesense or luck. Which is imo no good counterargument.
I don't know if that is the fact and true tho. I sadly self had no time to read everything.

And when i am honest, i should do this first next week sadly. I have a very important test next thursday. I spent already way too much time into this all, trying to be fair to the community, patreons and seeking.

So not sure if people will wait 1 week for me :lol:


Edit: Beside this, the ban in ML is atm not about maphacking. Its about that seeking still played on deadbolt account. Yes probably not in 1vs1, since they knew we would have an eye on 1vs1, but not for 2vs2 games.
The skill difference between seeking and deadbolt is huge and you can see that ingame too.
18 Mar 2021, 19:39 PM
#95
avatar of Seeking

Posts: 56

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:25 PMA_E

4) The Deadbolt account easily won several games against high level 2v2 opponents with double the CPM than usual after the initial warning/ban, the opponents thought it was Seeking, and all analysis of the replays pointed towards someone other than Deadbolt (a rank 300ish player) playing. This was presented to Seeking, with no response.


So you referring the game of Creativename and Rutra where Deadbolt and Flap won against them? Can we get the opinion about the opponnents? I tried to explain the CPM issue in my document and even put games where he plays against me with higher CPM. Where are the analysis of the replays? If u referring the game where they lost to borobadger and toyvendor and i really don't think they are high level 2v2 players. You never really presented me the actual evidence.
A_E
18 Mar 2021, 19:40 PM
#96
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:39 PMSeeking

You never really presented me the actual evidence.


As previously shown that conversation was kind of one way wasn't it...
18 Mar 2021, 19:40 PM
#97
avatar of Seeking

Posts: 56

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:40 PMA_E


As previously shown that conversation was kind of one way wasn't it...


But you talking about analysis. Opponents saying it's me? You really not answering my question.
The offer which u made for me was.
a) take it to a vote with the potential of a permaban
b) admit to something i didn't do and get a timeban
18 Mar 2021, 19:41 PM
#98
avatar of Leodot

Posts: 254

Can you do please this in private.

I feel this is not the correct way to discuss such things openly in front of the community. Please step all back and watch the damage you have done.

18 Mar 2021, 19:42 PM
#99
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2455 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:41 PMLeodot
Can you do please this in private.

I feel this is not the correct way to discuss such things openly in front of the community. Please step all back and watch the damage you have done.


+1
18 Mar 2021, 19:49 PM
#100
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1


Hence why the 2nd part of my message which you've for some reason[ decided to omit in your quote and reply to me.

Lol okay dude, it was just to limit the post size... I read the whole thing

Im a casual player too, but it's not hard to understand why people who have money on the line might take it more seriously than me. Be it players or donors
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