Login

russian armor

My respond to the accusations

PAGES (13)down
18 Mar 2021, 19:53 PM
#101
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2516 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 19:41 PMLeodot
Can you do please this in private.

I feel this is not the correct way to discuss such things openly in front of the community. Please step all back and watch the damage you have done.



yeah I dont quite understand the point of this whole thread either.

1) The maphack "prosecutions" against seeking got dropped for now, a decision I am 100% fine with

2) The whole MasterLeague suspension thingy should be handled privately, I agree. I have nothing to do with the MasterLeague referee system and that stuff is none of our business. Technically a tournament organizer can (time)ban someone from their tourney for whatever reason they want.

3) Whilst the "top player allegedly maphacking" thread was already really controversial: this one right here is rly just pure drama and toxic bullshit
18 Mar 2021, 20:07 PM
#103
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 749 | Subs: 1


yeah I dont quite understand the point of this whole thread either.

Seeking is pissed off, because he got a timeban. Because community figures were acting like he 100% hacked, but were unable to prove it, he thinks that he have an upper hand now.
Seeking took the initiative by releasing bunch of black mail to present A_E and others as a biased and unprofessional individuals, showing that ML ban is an act of vengeance for an inability to ban him for cheats.
Therefor even ML ban is unjitified and should be dropped, because it was given unrightfully by dudes with personal hatered towards him.

Just like a movie :hijack:
18 Mar 2021, 20:09 PM
#104
avatar of SturmTigerGaddafi
Benefactor 355

Posts: 758 | Subs: 3

@Mods, why don't we close this. I think everyone said what they have to say. We will continue discussing this within the realm of ML and/or PMs.
18 Mar 2021, 20:17 PM
#105
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3455 | Subs: 2

Clip number 2





I cannot accept an explanation of "I know where the camouflaged AT guns were because of map design, despite them never firing on my vehicle and not being anywhere near it at the start of the clip. Also if he's so afraid of a snare and enemy vehicle that he has to back off immediately, why take the shot in the first place? You have nothing to lose by taking an attack ground shot, except he admits that he has something to lose by being so afraid of a snare, so the attack ground must have intent and something to be gained, ergo he somehow knows the M42s are there.


Clip number 4





I think this explanation is fine, though he hasn't explained why he felt the need to clearly look into the fog of war at the incoming blob.


Clip number 6





Reasonable explanation. I can get behind that.


Clip number 9





Again, reasonable. I don't think this is suspicious.



Clip number 14





I have an issue with this explanation. The "this is the only place he can come back into the field from is pure nonsense, the clip starts at 11:00 with the enemy sniper in base with like 80% health. The countersnipe attempt move begins at 12:05. There is no way an enemy sniper takes an entire minute to walk onto the base exit from inside his own base. A player of Seeking's skill would have an internal clock and would know that once 30secs from the retreat passed, the enemy sniper should be on the field and having seen Brosras' commander loadout and having played them quite often they should have in their heads the possibility of the enemy team having radio intercept. Therefore assuming after about 1.5min (from when the retreat was forced) that the enemy sniper that took minimal damage would only then emerge from the base exit is not a valid explanation.

The play itself is highly questionable since there's an M3A1 around that's vet 2 with 65 sight. I don't understand how someone who's top 5 in skill in the community plays sniper and doesn't take something that simple into account and thus yeets his sniper forward about 1min later than when he should have. I could understand someone of rank 200 making this play, but someone who's won an UTT 2v2 tournament should not be making this play.
18 Mar 2021, 20:18 PM
#106
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3455 | Subs: 2



Katyusha clip



Not sure what to say here, Seeking fires the barrage 6 seconds after last seeing the blob about 40m away from where he fired it. Never have I seen someone before randomly firing into the fog of war like that. If I was the Katy user, I would be carefully aiming and I'd pull the trigger the moment I saw the first enemy model. No way in hell would I prefire, that's absolutely bizzare. You have no concept of the blob's position, they might have decided to go straight down the mid, or go to the VP or to the far left, there's no way you know there's coming down the road in order to explain the prefire. To me, this is the worst clip because it's antithetical to how everyone plays rocket arty, you don't blind fire like this.


T70 vs Sniper





Excuse me, what are you talking about Seeking? The raketen above the decrewed pak40 opened fire on the cromwell very very clearly. You're pushing with a T70 that's 2 AT shots from death, going away from the decrewed pak40 with the wall between your T70 and the grens knowing full well T70 shots always hit terrain structures if you roll an accuracy miss, into the revealed raketen that can easily 2 shot you and to achieve what? You claim to be helping to push the decrewed pak40 because kimbo pinged you, yet the way you used the t70 here is either a complete suicide run that only an awful rank 9000 player would do or you are taking a risk to dive the hidden sniper. You talked about risks during the explanation on the brummbar shots, fearing snare or tank behind the building. What about here? You're ignoring Kimbo asking for help to send your T70 into a revealed raketen. Extremely suspicious clip.


Seeking vs Noggano



I actually think this is generally good MG play. I don't think any of these are suspicious.



Countersnipe on DevM's sniper



I also think this is okay since the soviet sniper revealed himself prior.


T70 attack ground shots





Where is the explanation for this? Pak40 is very exposed in front of the hedge with only a Grenadier next to it. A couple conscripts with the T70 attacking ground could very quickly decrew the exposed pak40 which takes its first attack ground shot a whopping 7 seconds after last seeing the T70. The proper play here it to either be aggressive with the 1 grenadier and try to push with pak40 and gren to score a faust and 2 shots to kill it while it presumably didn't retreat far and dutchman isn't looking at it, or to pull the pak40 back a bit to a safer position. Again, Seeking talked about risk vs reward. Where is the reward here? What reasonable player would expose their pak40 like this to take wild shots into the fog of war 7 seconds after last spotting a vehicle? Highly suspicious.


Halftruck running into Storms





That really doesn't seem even suspicious. Likely just accidentally ran past the Stormtroopers while trying to assist his ally's T34/85.


Found you clip (sniper)





Not a fan of the explanation, but if the enemy sniper was badly injured and I was the Soviet sniper player and saw the vet 1 Grens standing out in the open like that, I'd assume they're using a medkit on the Ost sniper and I'd try to get a countersnipe off so I assume this is a normal play and not suspicious.


godlike sniperplay





Kimbo told him to bait the 222 so this aggression is justified. I don't have any issues with this clip.


wolfheze sniper dodge to left





So Seeking says he avoids the middle because it's not safe. Let's have a look at the left flank at 5:45, 16 seconds before he orders his sniper to go left to avoid the unsafe middle.



There are 3 different pings on the map on the left flank, one on the muni point, one on the VP and one on a regular point. All 3 of them are on the left of the sniper's position at 5:45.



This is 1 frame after Seeking orders his sniper to avoid the unsafe middle and go to the left, where he has had 0 units to scout around for the past minute since his Conscripts retreated from the left at 5:00. One Gren has been spotted at this point by the CEs and there are 2 or maybe more squads on the left flank that are unaccounted for, yet Seeking decides the left side is safer than simply backing off the sniper until the cons arrived, which coincidentally would put the enemy camouflaged sniper in perfect position to countersnipe. This decision is extremely suspicious, the safest play here is to retreat straight back towards the base which would reward Brosras for his excellent sniper play past the CEs with a countersnipe, yet Seeking sends the sniper left, having no clue about the unlikely sniper hiding past the hedge, and into an area where there are 2+ enemy squads potentially. Extremely suspicious.


AT gun in the corner of the map



AT gun finishes capping at about 12:10. Radio silence is clicked at 12:41. That's 31 seconds after the M1 finished capping, not to mention the picture shows a rifle squad in the VP that could have finished the capping. Furthermore, the Volksgrenadiers are played in a very suspicious manner. If Seeking was trying to locate the AT gun, he would have spread out the Volks to scout as much ground as possible, then home in to the M1 after spotting it. Yet, let's have a look at how the Volks are played.





Most damning in my view is the 2nd picture, where the volks squad doesn't continue towards the enemy base seeking to find the M1 on its way back to decrew it, but instead is content to sit there and cap. These two behaviours are not explained at all by Seeking so this clip to me is highly suspicious.

18 Mar 2021, 20:19 PM
#107
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3455 | Subs: 2

CPM replays



To be honest, my own CPM varies wildly between games. I've had games in the low 50s and I've had games with 130+. I don't think on its own it's solid proof. Nevertheless, Seeking uses wasd to move the camera which registers as clicking, while Deadbolt doesn't, so there is some merit here to the accusations. I'm gonna say it's slightly suspicious.


SturmtigerGaddafi and Kimbo DMs



I don't think threatening Kimbo here is the correct way to go about it. I am 100% against how Gaddafi handles this.


Group chat of Sturmpanther, AE and whoever else we don't see



I'm kinda torn here. I can see both sides, Seeking saying they are just trying to find reasons ban him and justify it, but also I can see A_E's and Sturmpanther's side here that there is a lot of money, time, passion and energy involved in these tournaments and their integrity is up to them to be protected. At the same time, I am 100% against the police threats, I think that's nonsense that has no place here. I can also see Relic's point of view that unless there is indisputable evidence that someone is maphacking, they won't ban in order to ensure someone innocent is never banned. Fair play to them.


Final Verdict



This is why I didn't want to take a public stance before hearing Seeking's appeal. One must hear both sides of a story before deciding what to believe, in all things and topics. I'm honestly leaning towards the maphacking accusations being legit, I don't see how the plays I've labeled as suspicious in my view are explained. There is also the issue that his uncle is a 100% proven maphacker and this association is really bad since it's not out of the realm of possibility (nor proven of course) that his uncle was pressuring him to maphack in order to earn more tournament money. At the same time this isn't proven, just something I could see as possible. At any rate, I think a 6 month ban (the 1 year they decided seems a bit excessive) with heavy supervision at all community events and 0 tolerance for repeat offenses is the best way to move forward and a good compromise. I would also recommend Deadbolt gets banned by Relic and permabanned from all community events.

Again, this post is my honest opinion on things. If anyone disagrees, power to you. It's just my opinion on the situation.

I would also advice everyone to avoid pettiness and insulting eachother.
18 Mar 2021, 20:27 PM
#108
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5378 | Subs: 28

@Mods, why don't we close this. I think everyone said what they have to say. We will continue discussing this within the realm of ML and/or PMs.


Because there are people out like T.R Stormjäger :thumbsup:

Thx Stormjäger for spending your time! (i have to admit, since already explained, i skipped the single clips and argumentation from seeking and you)

18 Mar 2021, 20:33 PM
#109
avatar of Seeking

Posts: 56

Thank u Stormjäger for taking your time to analyse! I appreciate it.
18 Mar 2021, 20:34 PM
#110
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

@Mods, why don't we close this. I think everyone said what they have to say. We will continue discussing this within the realm of ML and/or PMs.


The moment Seeking or some of you guys give word that you agreed to return things back into private you can contact any of the mods or oranges online to close the thread.

While things are heated atm, IMO it's fair to keep the thread open. Even if i don't like how things are been handled atm.

18 Mar 2021, 21:05 PM
#111
avatar of Yukiko
Admin Red  Badge

Posts: 2404 | Subs: 2

Or even better: Take it to private if you are going to have back and forths regarding personal matters. This thread is for Seeking's defense and the responses to that document. Please keep to this topic and keep it civil. Stormjäger would be a good example to follow.
18 Mar 2021, 21:06 PM
#112
avatar of bulatcr

Posts: 142

The real sad thing about all of this is that coh2 is such a small community and yet some top players are being banned in that way. I mean there are not that many players who play on such level. BTW seeking played vs isildur with webcam in finals, so he is top player for sure. How many people here can do 3-2 series vs isildur?
1 year ban a bit too much. May be ban for next ML 5?
Pip
18 Mar 2021, 21:13 PM
#113
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1486

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 21:06 PMbulatcr
The real sad thing about all of this is that coh2 is such a small community and yet some top players are being banned in that way. I mean there are not that many players who play on such level. BTW seeking played vs isildur with webcam in finals, so he is top player for sure. How many people here can do 3-2 series vs isildur?
1 year ban a bit too much. May be ban for next ML 5?


I don't think "Well, the community is too small to ban cheaters" is much of a defence, is it?
18 Mar 2021, 21:28 PM
#114
avatar of masterx.

Posts: 19

So ok, seeking was accused of map hacking, and that clearly didn't work out. So now lets just ban him for boosting. Even tho he admitted he boosted deadbolt like 2 months ago, wasn't given any punishment, and now that he cant get banned for map hacks, lets just bring that old stuff up and convict him on that. IMO seems something AE would do.
18 Mar 2021, 21:32 PM
#116
avatar of bulatcr

Posts: 142

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2021, 21:13 PMPip


I don't think "Well, the community is too small to ban cheaters" is much of a defence, is it?


Seeking didn't cheat, even AE himself said that there are not enough evidence.

My point is that the whole story is terrible. And one of the top players got banned in such absurd way.
18 Mar 2021, 21:39 PM
#117
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

Sturmpanther said that he had worked with Relic to get map hackers banned in the past, without revealing their name/information publicly.

But in this case... the name and information went public after Relic concluded that there was not definitive evidence of foul play?

Why were other people's identities protected, but not Seeking's?
18 Mar 2021, 21:48 PM
#118
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



Learn alphabet, then try reading and after that return to this forum.

This statement is simply insulting the other person without addressing the true point that I'm sure you believe they missed in any way. It is rude, completely unconstructive and without value for everyone involved in the exchange, so please do not post like this in the future and instead respectably support your outlook by explaining it.
18 Mar 2021, 21:53 PM
#119
avatar of masterx.

Posts: 19

I totally agree with what you said above, but cmon, bulat clearly wrote this

"The real sad thing about all of this is that coh2 is such a small community and yet some top players are being banned in that way."

So how can your response then be:
I don't think "Well, the community is too small to ban cheaters" is much of a defence, is it?"
A_E
18 Mar 2021, 22:04 PM
#120
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2393 | Subs: 6

So ok, seeking was accused of map hacking, and that clearly didn't work out. So now lets just ban him for boosting. Even tho he admitted he boosted deadbolt like 2 months ago, wasn't given any punishment, and now that he cant get banned for map hacks, lets just bring that old stuff up and convict him on that. IMO seems something AE would do.


Uhm no, that's not even slighty what happened. It came to light in that time that his uncle has 100% obviously used map hacks. Do you not feel that is useful information? There was also players that had come up against deadbolt that were convinced it was seeking, there was replay analysis to back it up, after the warning.

Please do better research into this topic before creating such narratives. Or feel free to ask. Cheers!
PAGES (13)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

Board Info

117 users are online: 3 members and 114 guests
Crecer13, general_gawain, Hannibal
104 posts in the last 24h
735 posts in the last week
2574 posts in the last month
Registered members: 25011
Welcome our newest member, amir_roberts_64
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM