Login

russian armor

[Winter Balance Update] OKW Feedback

  • This thread is locked
PAGES (27)down
3 Dec 2020, 13:42 PM
#141
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940



I know you don't play allies Vodyani but try playing USF a bit and you'll see what I mean.

Pressing buttons is not the problem. The constant rotating and turning is. You need to reverse into combat, before firing stop, and then pull the brake so it doesn't constantly rotate when trying to fire. The engine probably is telling the computer to turn the HT the "right" way but the arc of fire is in the "reverse" way. Horrible. Also, AA HT needs to stop to fire the larger caliber shells. On the move it can only fire the MG which suppresses poorly. The main gun needs the HT to be stationary to fire.
God forbid that the AAHT is in trouble and you need a quick escape, that sh** will rotate and rotate. The smoke on flak + fast deployment > AAHT. AA HT is still good, no doubt, but cancerous and worst AA unit of all due to tracking and constant bugging out. Flak is also much better AI but is slower and needs deployment, which is fast enough but still needed. Also smoke.
So I stand behind that the raketen is a much bigger cancer for AA HT than anything else is for the flak, due to smoke mainly.

I do play USF from time to time, though mainly for meme or OP builds. Sometimes the AAHT as well, as it's so powerful in the CPT.

I can see (and have seen it in game) the forced rotation being a problem, but if you have the enemy in your rear arc, you have much bigger problems to deal with. Such as the fact that they have flanked you and have your retreat path cut off. With a flak HT you'd be in dire trouble as well (choose between standing your ground to die potentially or run off), M5 Quad less so but that thing has a very expensive upgrade requirement.

Of course the mobile MG has poor suppression, it can't be a proper MG on treads.

USF has an AA unit? :lol:
3 Dec 2020, 13:48 PM
#142
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

So some people really think reducing the Panzerschreck upgrade for Sturms by 10 munitions and making it possible to equip sweeper + Panzerschreck is going to be a big change and give OKW a huge boost?

What a non-sense. This change will do very little.

Sorry, but GiA's evidence-based post was a lot better than this subjective opinion one. I'm with GiA on this, and already said a few pages back that the suurmpio schrek change is a pandora's box.
3 Dec 2020, 16:01 PM
#143
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1


Sorry, but GiA's evidence-based post was a lot better than this subjective opinion one. I'm with GiA on this, and already said a few pages back that the suurmpio schrek change is a pandora's box.


Can you please do yourself a favour and find out what evidence-based means.

Feel free to quote me once the patch hits and the new Panzerschreck-equipped Sturms make a huge difference and prove me wrong.
3 Dec 2020, 16:16 PM
#144
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Can you please do yourself a favour and find out what evidence-based means.


We tested the mod and found it to be powerful. It is empirical evidence, but evidence nonetheless.
Pip
3 Dec 2020, 16:25 PM
#145
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

I don't think Sturms being able to Shreck themselves up and still get a sweeper is going to be overly impactful.

At 7 population you're still unlikely to be able to justify multiple Sturm squads, and a single Panzershreck on an expensive, and rather vulnerable squad (That has a lot to do) is unlikely to push OKW into the realm of overpowered. The Panzershreck upgrade may as well not have existed before now, incidentally, given that Sweepers are rather vital in most cases.

It's certainly a buff, undeniably so, but i think calling it a "Pandora's box" is maybe a little hyperbolic. Lets see how it plays out when the patch is actually released and people can get to use it properly. Rear Echelons can already get two Bazookas along with sweepers on a much more affordable and expendable (up to) five man squad. They don't have quite such a nice accuracy bonus as Sturms, but they do get two launchers.

(Royal Engineers can do the same with PIATs)
3 Dec 2020, 16:36 PM
#146
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 261

I suggest to reduce Sturms' RA instead of giving them Shrecks. Riflemen's close DPS are too high for Sturms right now.
Pip
3 Dec 2020, 17:01 PM
#147
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

I suggest to reduce Sturms' RA instead of giving them Shrecks. Riflemen's close DPS are too high for Sturms right now.


They ALREADY have shrecks. This change just means that you can consider justifying those shrecks. Sweepers are too vital in most games to be able to consider forgoing them in exchange for a single rocket launcher. OKW, unlike other factions, do not have the luxury of being able to afford to make multiple engineer squads, and other factions who can give their engineers AT weaponry already do not have to choose between sweepers and their launchers.
4 Dec 2020, 02:46 AM
#148
avatar of KT610

Posts: 69

What Sturmpioneers really need is buff to their mid to late game performance, and I think giving them access to ambush camouflage would be a good way to accomplish that.
4 Dec 2020, 06:40 AM
#149
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 16:25 PMPip
It's certainly a buff, undeniably so, but i think calling it a "Pandora's box" is maybe a little hyperbolic.

I don't, obviously, which is why I wrote my post... ;)

It takes the choice away from 'maintain my tanks late' and 'damage other tanks'.

It impacts the early game (heal a luchs quickly and drive off a T70), midgame (rapidly get P4s back online, keep stuart and AEC away), and lategame (easily maintain fleet of heavy tanks / destroyers, and punish SU85 flank creepers and jacksons to finish the job).

I just don't think the decision should be such a no-brainer.

OKW also has other non-doctrinal and powerful repair and deterrent units, e.g. repair bay and base turret. There are doctrines that increase pio repair ability, why not wait for commander revamp to revisit this change
4 Dec 2020, 12:17 PM
#150
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

Is anything gonna be done to Fallschirms? Currently they have very similar performance to Obers at long range, but they are significantly better at close and medium range (only slightly worse than Stg Obers). 2-3 squads of them are enough to pretty much mow down any infantry opposition with little micro, which is amusing as a user but very annoying as a foe.

Personally I would make them a proper stealth focused squad, similar to Stormtroopers and Commandos.
4 Dec 2020, 13:34 PM
#151
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

Is anything gonna be done to Fallschirms? Currently they have very similar performance to Obers at long range, but they are significantly better at close and medium range (only slightly worse than Stg Obers). 2-3 squads of them are enough to pretty much mow down any infantry opposition with little micro, which is amusing as a user but very annoying as a foe.

Personally I would make them a proper stealth focused squad, similar to Stormtroopers and Commandos.


As a USF player I concur that fallschirms are really strong. OP? I don't think so. Weak to tanks and if somebody does blob them, use mortars or some sort of indirect. Avoid infantry confrontations vs them. The AT removal was a necessary nerf and right now they perform OK. One could reduce the AI power a bit and give them some sort of stealth but, again, as I've said. They are fine IMHO
5 Dec 2020, 03:53 AM
#152
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

The cumulative stacking of multiple different buffs to OKW sure seems over the top and scary. Such as Faster Medics, Sturm Shreks with sweepers and being cheaper, Quicker Ober LMG's, Quicker Ostwind/Flame Hetzer. Especially combined with the T-70 nerf and lack of meaingful buffs to Soviets, the Soviet vs OKW matchup seems quite unfair.
5 Dec 2020, 04:25 AM
#153
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

The cumulative stacking of multiple different buffs to OKW sure seems over the top and scary. Such as Faster Medics, Sturm Shreks with sweepers and being cheaper, Quicker Ober LMG's, Quicker Ostwind/Flame Hetzer. Especially combined with the T-70 nerf and lack of meaingful buffs to Soviets, the Soviet vs OKW matchup seems quite unfair.


There'll be some significant changes upcoming. It's likely we will be testing a different variation of the OKW Battlegroup that makes the comannder armor tier rush less potent, while dealing with OKW's issue with backteching for medics.
5 Dec 2020, 04:53 AM
#154
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

There'll be some significant changes upcoming. It's likely we will be testing a different variation of the OKW Battlegroup that makes the comannder armor tier rush less potent, while dealing with OKW's issue with backteching for medics.


Hopefully keeping Battlegroup's medics, that was my favourite change of the lot. It didn't sit right with me that the truck with the giant cross on it didn't actually heal you.
5 Dec 2020, 07:13 AM
#155
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 710 | Subs: 2



Hopefully keeping Battlegroup's medics, that was my favourite change of the lot. It didn't sit right with me that the truck with the giant cross on it didn't actually heal you.


I'm sorry but you can't be serious? It has a cross and thus it must heal by default? What kind of argument is that.

The medics being an additional sidetech is a must to keep OKW tech at least somewhat interesting. The current all in one tech literally makes them void of any decision making. What should be done instead is separating the medic function of Battlegtroup from the unit access. Each of them should be a separate sidetech. This way OKW can backtech for medics without paying the full cost and has the option to save ressources by using med crates giving the faction some much needed flexibility.
5 Dec 2020, 07:53 AM
#156
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2020, 07:13 AMGiaA


I'm sorry but you can't be serious? It has a cross and thus it must heal by default? What kind of argument is that.

The medics being an additional sidetech is a must to keep OKW tech at least somewhat interesting. The current all in one tech literally makes them void of any decision making. What should be done instead is separating the medic function of Battlegtroup from the unit access. Each of them should be a separate sidetech. This way OKW can backtech for medics without paying the full cost and has the option to save ressources by using med crates giving the faction some much needed flexibility.

Unfortunately that is the case for most faction now there is little reason for OKW to be left behind.

This also effects the faction performance in team-games since a ostheer ally can solve OKW healing issues with bunker.
5 Dec 2020, 07:58 AM
#157
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 710 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2020, 07:53 AMVipper

Unfortunately that is the case for most faction now there is little reason for OKW to be left behind.

This also effects the faction performance in team-games since a ostheer ally can solve OKW healing issues with bunker.


What? 200 MP, 250/10 fuel, 180, 150/60ammo

No idea what you're getting at with regards to teamgames.
5 Dec 2020, 08:00 AM
#158
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

The cumulative stacking of multiple different buffs to OKW sure seems over the top and scary. Such as Faster Medics, Sturm Shreks with sweepers and being cheaper, Quicker Ober LMG's, Quicker Ostwind/Flame Hetzer. Especially combined with the T-70 nerf and lack of meaingful buffs to Soviets, the Soviet vs OKW matchup seems quite unfair.


The Soviet vs OKW matchup is fine as it is anyway. It's USF and UKF that are too strong now compared to OKW and considering Soviets got more nerfs than buffs with the recent patch I don't see how this is going to change.

They finally need to do something to make OKW playable against UKF and reduce some of the over the top units USF has.

Also Ostheer has gotten so many buffs over the last couple of balance updates that there is really no point in playing OKW when Ostheer can do everything better including early game pressure with aggressive infantry which used to be OKW's main strength.
5 Dec 2020, 08:05 AM
#159
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2020, 07:58 AMGiaA


What? 200 MP, 250/10 fuel, 180, 150/60ammo

No idea what you're getting at with regards to teamgames.

My point is that:
USF where designed to be about decision making do I want support weapons or light vehicles?
Soviet where about decision making, do I want tank or TD do I want infatry or support weapons?
UKF still have some choices that are being removed like do I build an AEC or bofors?

These decision making has been slowly been removed in the new environment it is seems "inevitable" or "necessary evil" for OKW to also have less impactful decision making.
5 Dec 2020, 08:10 AM
#160
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 710 | Subs: 2



The Soviet vs OKW matchup is fine as it is anyway. It's USF and UKF that are too strong now compared to OKW and considering Soviets got more nerfs than buffs with the recent patch I don't see how this is going to change.

They finally need to do something to make OKW playable against UKF and reduce some of the over the top units USF has.

Also Ostheer has gotten so many buffs over the last couple of balance updates that there is really no point in playing OKW when Ostheer can do everything better including early game pressure with aggressive infantry which used to be OKW's main strength.


The patch changes a lot about OKW vs Brit balance. AEC timing nerf, capping nerf (further delaying aec), valentine massively delayed, sturm schreck making the aec even worse, insane hetzer and ostwind timing, possibility of quick obers, free heal included in an already extremely powerful tech route
PAGES (27)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

222 users are online: 2 members and 220 guests
DIRTY_FINISHER, Tiger Baron
7 posts in the last 24h
33 posts in the last week
87 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44640
Welcome our newest member, meryanna
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM