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[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

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31 Dec 2020, 11:04 AM
#1061
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 10:59 AMVipper

Have you ever seen a Penal flamer ourah blob?

Have you seen how luchs rolled over them?
Have you forgot that volks were AT squad with much lower AI then now at the time?
Have you forgot about Kubeljesus, our god of suppression?

Or have you just sucked hard since the old times and were kept getting rolled over by penals regardless of how strong/weak they were at any given time, which led to current penal derangement syndrome?
31 Dec 2020, 13:30 PM
#1063
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 06:34 AMgbem


why do people have such a hate boner for the maxim when the MG42 can do everything the maxim can but better?

it literally makes NO SENSE


Because you can't just look at Maxim vs MG42 in a vacuum. Soviets get 2 CP elite infantry call-ins that synergize extremely well and soon after T70.
31 Dec 2020, 13:43 PM
#1064
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 00:15 AMKatitof

I believe the problem stems from mid game lack of scaling.
You just can not have mainline inf that is reliable and relevant across whole game without weapon upgrade.
We've strolled this road for years with conscripts, now we're going for a 2nd lap with penals and their mid and late game viability.

Lack of upgrade to keep infantry scaling through early mid game and extreme over reliance on T-70 to jump back into the game once everyone else starts rolling out infantry weapon upgrades is a direct reason why T1 feels bad on the long run as even if SU-76 might be a good option right now, as long as there is no infantry scaling to fend of the pressure, it will always be T-70 and in turn, T1 lack of AT reliability and AI scaling.


They can work without weapon upgrades, Penals did for ages (better to say a year but they were still meta). They were even so good that they had to be nerfed. However even old Conscripts were not as bad as people made them out to be. The main issue is that units without weapon upgrade are harder to replace once you loose them. Penals start out strong, don't necessarily need an upgrade. Conscripts on the other hand start quite weak like other infantry, but previously their only way to get stronger was veterancy. That is okay for the initially build Conscripts, but not for replacement units. Hence why Conscripts get their late game upgrade. Mobilized reserves did not change the first 10-12 minutes of the game at all, still Conscripts have become the new meta over Penals.

T1 is an additional strain on Penals. But I think with the fact that LVs are way more popular compared to two years ago and the SU76 being nerfed, the way to T4 has just become too long and Penal builds have become more risky.
31 Dec 2020, 14:08 PM
#1065
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 11:04 AMKatitof

Have you seen how luchs rolled over them?
Have you forgot that volks were AT squad with much lower AI then now at the time?

The it simply false, Penal had the far DPS doubled in the same patch VG lost their shreck.

And you are mistaken about Vg also, at the time they where cheaper and had better vet bonuses.

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 11:04 AMKatitof

Have you forgot about Kubeljesus, our god of suppression?

Again that is incorrect.

Kubel suppression was removed prior to the Penal buff

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 11:04 AMKatitof

Or have you just sucked hard since the old times and were kept getting rolled over by penals regardless of how strong/weak they were at any given time, which led to current penal derangement syndrome?

You thinking of balance is personal manner, flamer Penal has nothing to do with me personally.

During the Penal/ourah/flamer, era Penal where the dominant meta, Soviet where dominant faction.

Flamer Penal could will almost any fight and they where nerfed because the majority of people got tired to flamer Penal meta.
31 Dec 2020, 14:18 PM
#1066
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Because you can't just look at Maxim vs MG42 in a vacuum. Soviets get 2 CP elite infantry call-ins that synergize extremely well and soon after T70.


Also, all Allied factions have something to counter HMGs from the start. Though UKF is a bit lacking. But OKW has nothing until they can get indirect, which is pretty expensive in live.
31 Dec 2020, 14:35 PM
#1067
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Because you can't just look at Maxim vs MG42 in a vacuum. Soviets get 2 CP elite infantry call-ins that synergize extremely well and soon after T70.


soo basically doctrines... can u make another argument other than doctrines? cuz core factions have to be balanced outside of doctrines

btw OST has something even more OP than 2cp elite infantry... its called VSL and ostruppen... plus did u forget the 3 min pgrens? they come before those elite infantry callins aswell

also are you forgetting the sidetechs of conscripts? conscripts still have to pay for ridiculous sidetechs which grenadiers get for free with tech...

lastly conscript + maxim needs a 160mp 15 fuel investment in T2 as opposed to the 80mp 10 fuel investment of ostheer T1 for grenadier + MG42

the only real advantage SOV has here is cons being capable of making sandbags but guess what its getting nerfed...
Pip
31 Dec 2020, 14:41 PM
#1068
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

IF penals need an upgrade, you merely need to tie it to Mobilise Reserves. Give them a seventh man (A commissar model, perhaps?), or simply have the upgrade turn them into "Strelky" and provide them with better RA, cooldown, and/or just have it hand them ATVs. (While reducing their reinforcement cost)

Tying "Mobilise" to both Cons and Penals would be a nice way to tie the units together.
31 Dec 2020, 15:12 PM
#1069
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



Because you can't just look at Maxim vs MG42 in a vacuum. Soviets get 2 CP elite infantry call-ins that synergize extremely well and soon after T70.


In return soviets get conscripts next to those 2 cp inf and maxim.
Where osts get grens with faust from minute 1 and prgrens, the mg42 with vet can fight light vehicles as well as controlling inf better then the live maxim by a wide margin. The flametrack and 222 synergyse really well with all of that and arrive earlier then the t70 or quad.





31 Dec 2020, 16:34 PM
#1070
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 08:46 AMVipper

If unit is not cost effective individually building more of them makes thing worse not better.


*cough* maxim *cough*
31 Dec 2020, 16:35 PM
#1071
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 14:41 PMPip
IF penals need an upgrade, you merely need to tie it to Mobilise Reserves. Give them a seventh man (A commissar model, perhaps?), or simply have the upgrade turn them into "Strelky" and provide them with better RA, cooldown, and/or just have it hand them ATVs. (While reducing their reinforcement cost)

Tying "Mobilise" to both Cons and Penals would be a nice way to tie the units together.

I think this is the best solution.
31 Dec 2020, 16:37 PM
#1072
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Also, all Allied factions have something to counter HMGs from the start. Though UKF is a bit lacking. But OKW has nothing until they can get indirect, which is pretty expensive in live.

What are your thoughts on giving sturms smoke nades? It's still in the time when sturms are mainly combat units and will help carry okw until other options become available
31 Dec 2020, 16:41 PM
#1073
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

What are your thoughts on giving sturms smoke nades? It's still in the time when sturms are mainly combat units and will help carry okw until other options become available


There is literally no more space available on their ability UI.
31 Dec 2020, 16:57 PM
#1074
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


There is literally no more space available on their ability UI.

What about swapping them out for the stun grenade? I feel like I can do more with a smoke nade then a stun
31 Dec 2020, 17:30 PM
#1075
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2



There is literally no more space available on their ability UI.


Remove the repair button :snfPeter:

For real though, OKW does not have transport vehicles anyway and that's the only reason this button exists. Everything else can be repaired by just clicking on it.

I don't think they'd need a smoke nade though. The stun nade is a nice change from the usual nades and adds to their "raw power" design.
Pip
31 Dec 2020, 17:32 PM
#1076
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Remove the repair button :snfPeter:

For real though, OKW does not have transport vehicles anyway and that's the only reason this button exists. Everything else can be repaired by just clicking on it.

I don't think they'd need a smoke nade though. The stun nade is a nice change from the usual nades and adds to their "raw power" design.


Opel Blitz.
31 Dec 2020, 17:35 PM
#1077
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Remove the repair button :snfPeter:

For real though, OKW does not have transport vehicles anyway and that's the only reason this button exists. Everything else can be repaired by just clicking on it.

I don't think they'd need a smoke nade though. The stun nade is a nice change from the usual nades and adds to their "raw power" design.


decrewed weapon teams aswell...
31 Dec 2020, 17:39 PM
#1078
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940



There is literally no more space available on their ability UI.

Most overloaded infantry unit/engineer in the game :lol:
31 Dec 2020, 17:39 PM
#1079
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

Before this gets out of hand:
I am not really arguing for removing repair from pioneers.
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 17:35 PMgbem


decrewed weapon teams aswell...

You could always take them and then repair. Or just salvage. To be honest I have never seen someone repairing a decrewed gun on the field. Only an abandoned vehicle.

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 17:32 PMPip


Opel Blitz.


I'll give you that one. Open Blitz is a sacrifice I am willing to make.
31 Dec 2020, 17:55 PM
#1080
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 133

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2020, 14:41 PMPip
IF penals need an upgrade, you merely need to tie it to Mobilise Reserves. Give them a seventh man (A commissar model, perhaps?), or simply have the upgrade turn them into "Strelky" and provide them with better RA, cooldown, and/or just have it hand them ATVs. (While reducing their reinforcement cost)

Tying "Mobilise" to both Cons and Penals would be a nice way to tie the units together.


This could be an interesting option although I think giving them a 7th man isn't gonna happen. Currently that slight reinforce reduction on the testing server is a nice addition but I do wonder how a bigger buff would help with that.

Maybe you could try giving penals a munition upgrade that gives them better dps to make it so they don't act exactly like 7 man cons? Cons would be the more durable and cost effective ones while Penals become harder hitting and better at attacking late game? The ATV could fit into that idea although idk how to exactly what the upgrade should give.
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