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[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

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28 Nov 2020, 12:38 PM
#81
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

...If you want the 1v1 meta to stop being stale, then you simply have to buff them. There isn't any other solution that really exists for it.


Or simply stop the power creep and nerf the allied infatry instead, since Grenadier have already received buffs...
28 Nov 2020, 13:27 PM
#82
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 186 | Subs: 1

''Panzer V Panther (OKW and Ostheer Variant)
Given the Panther's lackluster veterancy 2 bonuses and the unit's reliance on accurate shots over rate of fire, we are improving the accuracy of Panthers that have gained veterancy.
- Panther accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.035 to 0.065/0.05/0.04
- Veterancy 2 now provides a +10% increased accuracy''

I don't think the panther being a better tank destroyer is good for the balance. I think it will become too oppressive after these changes.
If Axis tank destroying capabilities need to be buffed then perhaps buffing the JP4 and the Stug might be a better route. Something like, higher pen for the JP4 and 60 range for the Stug.
28 Nov 2020, 13:33 PM
#83
avatar of Starco

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2020, 12:38 PMVipper

Or simply stop the power creep and nerf the allied infatry instead, since Grenadier have already received buffs...


Allied infantry is and should be better than axis one.
Allied infantry is more expensive, needs actual macro/micro in order to buy weapons (it's not just an upgrade, you have to buy upgrades that have a considerable cost just in order to be able to buy some, then you have to add the time/micro to be somewhere near weapons racks and then only spend ammunition to buy them).

Grenadiers are just fine, they perform greatly as a standard unit; they are versatile and strong enough. This is without saying that as Ost, either in 1v1's or 4v4's, you are never supposed to win on your opponent with the same number of troops but rather use the HMG's in order to win.

That is how axis is supposed to be played, if you don't play it the way it should be played and encounter problems, the blame is on you not the game.
28 Nov 2020, 13:44 PM
#84
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

''Panzer V Panther (OKW and Ostheer Variant)
Given the Panther's lackluster veterancy 2 bonuses and the unit's reliance on accurate shots over rate of fire, we are improving the accuracy of Panthers that have gained veterancy.
- Panther accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.035 to 0.065/0.05/0.04
- Veterancy 2 now provides a +10% increased accuracy''

I don't think the panther being a better tank destroyer is good for the balance. I think it will become too oppressive after these changes.
If Axis tank destroying capabilities need to be buffed then perhaps buffing the JP4 and the Stug might be a better route. Something like, higher pen for the JP4 and 60 range for the Stug.


In regards to the panther accuracy, it really just solidifies panthers being almost completely reliable to chase down heavies which is its primary job (not like you see them anyway).

Its just going to be more capable to do the same with mediums.

28 Nov 2020, 13:46 PM
#85
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Didn't the target size of mediums get buffed a few patches ago so that they can get a spot in the meta? Now the Panther which is already too strong and needs a nerf instead gets a massive accuracy buff while the Jakckson and su85 get nerfed at vet 3 while they're fighting 234 armour panzer IVs?

Very interesting.
28 Nov 2020, 14:15 PM
#89
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

''Panzer V Panther (OKW and Ostheer Variant)
Given the Panther's lackluster veterancy 2 bonuses and the unit's reliance on accurate shots over rate of fire, we are improving the accuracy of Panthers that have gained veterancy.
- Panther accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.035 to 0.065/0.05/0.04
- Veterancy 2 now provides a +10% increased accuracy''

I don't think the panther being a better tank destroyer is good for the balance. I think it will become too oppressive after these changes.
If Axis tank destroying capabilities need to be buffed then perhaps buffing the JP4 and the Stug might be a better route. Something like, higher pen for the JP4 and 60 range for the Stug.


Thinking about it I also do not get it.
The Panther is "suffering" from high scatter especially on the move, not from low accuracy while standing.

IF the Panther needs a buff in that regard, either reduce scatter (I'd suggest angular scatter to go down to 5-6) OR increase moving accuracy.

That general accuracy buff partially reverts the medium buffs as Stormjager pointed out and does not help much vs heavies anyway. The Panther does not need to be even more oppressive vs mediums.
28 Nov 2020, 14:29 PM
#91
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Without having tested it, why is a universal MG buff planned? MGs are already good enough as they are now that most indirect fire has been nerfed or is getting nerfed soon.
28 Nov 2020, 14:37 PM
#92
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366



Thinking about it I also do not get it.
The Panther is "suffering" from high scatter especially on the move, not from low accuracy while standing.

IF the Panther needs a buff in that regard, either reduce scatter (I'd suggest angular scatter to go down to 5-6) OR increase moving accuracy.

That general accuracy buff partially reverts the medium buffs as Stormjager pointed out and does not help much vs heavies anyway. The Panther does not need to be even more oppressive vs mediums.


Hence why I said its better at chasing down mediums (not including veteracy/tank commander).

New

0.065x20=1.3=130%
0.05x20=1=100%
0.04x20=0.8=80%

Old

0.06x21=1.26=126%
0.045x21=0.94=94%
0.035x21=0.73=73%

The panther is actually better than before. I think just tinkling the moving accuracy may be enough but ill be wary if thats done (edit, this goes against what I said about the panther being better at chasing down tanks, probably better to make it vet only).
28 Nov 2020, 15:04 PM
#94
avatar of Phoenix101

Posts: 63

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2020, 20:58 PMKatitof
T34 Ram is being "demo charged" out of the game.
No one is going to use it on a vetted tank.
Make it so it does not immobilize T34 afterwards then just soft-removing it from the game completely and if you really want to, then don't pretend, just remove it and replace it with something different.

Penal adjustment isn't going to do much to their late game scaling, because they suffer from exact same problems cons did prior to 7th man - specifically, vet alone will never scale any infantry squad into late game.

Everything else looks solid.


"Oh no, there is a downside to an ability, what to do, what to do... Now I have to think before I ram and rocket strafe a 250 fuel heavy to instant death, omg, so unfair"
28 Nov 2020, 15:09 PM
#95
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793



Thinking about it I also do not get it.
The Panther is "suffering" from high scatter especially on the move, not from low accuracy while standing.

IF the Panther needs a buff in that regard, either reduce scatter (I'd suggest angular scatter to go down to 5-6) OR increase moving accuracy.

That general accuracy buff partially reverts the medium buffs as Stormjager pointed out and does not help much vs heavies anyway. The Panther does not need to be even more oppressive vs mediums.


0.065 and 0.5 moving accrucy is 0.0325, only a 8% chance increase, and not that big a buff?

if accuracy remain 0.06 and increase moving accruacy to 0.55, it becomes 0.033.

can you increase moving accrucy by 0.01s or has to be every 0.05?

It is panther slow rof (until vet3) that is troubling to take out 640hp 60td or allies heavy.
28 Nov 2020, 15:13 PM
#97
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Didn't the target size of mediums get buffed a few patches ago so that they can get a spot in the meta? Now the Panther which is already too strong and needs a nerf instead gets a massive accuracy buff while the Jakckson and su85 get nerfed at vet 3 while they're fighting 234 armour panzer IVs?

Very interesting.

M36/Su-85/FF have little trouble hitting and penetrating the PzIV even up to range 60.

And they already get (tree times bigger than the one suggested) accuracy and penetration bonuses with veterancy with vet while being more accurate to being with.
28 Nov 2020, 15:20 PM
#98
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

while the Jakckson and su85 get nerfed at vet 3 while they're fighting 234 armour panzer IVs?


Literally nothing changes in regards to Jackson and SU-85 versus 234 armor Panzer IVs.
28 Nov 2020, 15:27 PM
#99
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



Literally nothing changes in regards to Jackson and SU-85 versus 234 armor Panzer IVs.


That is good.

Still doesn't answer why the OP Panther gets buffed.
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