Guys dont forget that this unit is into a commander that got already nerf just last patch. Perimeter overwatch got reduced by half is duration time.
I like what sanders suggesting, baby steps and keeping in mind that it is supposed to be good and feel oppressive in early-mid game because it's a doctrinal unit.
I would not change his arrival timing but i would tweak a little bit his vet bonus so he would not get his veterency has easy:
By switching his vet2 20%speed and acceleration bonus with his vet 3 10% accuracy? Then if its not anought cut down on his newly vet2 10%accuracy to make it 8%?
Nerf the Valentine
18 Jul 2020, 03:35 AM
#21
Posts: 33
18 Jul 2020, 11:00 AM
#22
Posts: 268
It does have 0.75 moving accuracy but accuracy is not used when facing anti-tank guns or infantry. Also it has 7 speed which is indeed fast, but it's the same speed as units like the T-70 or the Stuart or the Cromwell.
It's a doctrinal unit, it's supposed to be good. Adjusting it further has to be done in a careful way. Nerfing its hitpoints to 400 so that it can get snared with one Faust would be a huge nerf. I would prefer baby steps and remove its oppressiveness (the fast call in and re-call in times) first before going after performance (which always has a good chance of ruining the unit).
I dont wanna derail this thread; but can we get 5 cp call in puma back limited to one? It is a doc unit and suppoesed to be good.
18 Jul 2020, 13:07 PM
#23
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
I don't know, people seem to look at valentine as super light tank, when in fact its more like 75% of T34/76 at 80% of its cost. Some kind of delay for consecutive one would be in order, akin to heavy insta call-in after loss prevention, being able to call new one instantly after losing 1st one is a problem.
Its initial timing is fine, by 5CP you can have T34 out.
Its initial timing is fine, by 5CP you can have T34 out.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Jul 2020, 13:29 PM
#24
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
The T-34/76 comparison is rather off mark since Valentine has zero tech cost compared to the T-34/76 which is cheap because of it high tech cost.
In addition the Valentine comes with the more utility able to spot, call in smoke and call in barrage allowing a single sexton to take out a OKW truck.
In addition the Valentine comes with the more utility able to spot, call in smoke and call in barrage allowing a single sexton to take out a OKW truck.
18 Jul 2020, 15:29 PM
#25
Posts: 5279
Let's just make all fucking call ins built from t0 when the CP are popped so we have the build time as a balance factor.
#stalinwept
18 Jul 2020, 16:43 PM
#26
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedAnother allies OP thread xD. You really complaining about Valentine? Puma easily kills it, snares make it useless. The whole point of that tank is to hit and run and you want to nerf that xD. Let me guess, you lost a game now and got outplayed by a brit with valentine and now are complaining here.
Low IQ post. Reading from the amount of exaggeration, you're officially an allied fanboy in my books. Puma "easily" kills it? If that was the case wouldn't all allied light vehicles be obsolete then if a puma is on the field? Snares make it useless? A vehicle that doesn't get engine damage from the first snare. By your logic LVs are useless since a single snare will cripple them.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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18 Jul 2020, 18:21 PM
#27
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Kind of amazed that people are this bothered by the .75 moving accuracy. Don't really see what situation that makes the Valentine OP in. Your using it mostly against infantry, mediums just got a Target size reduction, and the puma outranges it by 10 so it doesn't dominate that either
Can someone actually explain what's wrong with the moving acuraccy modifier? Instead of just saying the number seems too high?
Make it require tech? Absolutely. Nerf the unit? Why? It's fine, it just shouldn't be so easy to call-in/replace
Can someone actually explain what's wrong with the moving acuraccy modifier? Instead of just saying the number seems too high?
Make it require tech? Absolutely. Nerf the unit? Why? It's fine, it just shouldn't be so easy to call-in/replace
18 Jul 2020, 19:11 PM
#28
Posts: 789
Build time or tech lock and it should be fine. It's got good performance but not overbearing.
I think this would be good. Not to harsh but still a nerf. If it’s still too good other things can be done later
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
18 Jul 2020, 19:26 PM
#29
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Can someone actually explain what's wrong with the moving acuraccy modifier? Instead of just saying the number seems too high?
The standard value for tanks is 0.5 other than USF which has 0.75 because their theme is "mobility".
So why should the Valentine have 0.75? It's not fair considering the timing. It means it has a easier time hitting LVs+ medium tanks without stop-microing every shot. It's relevant against any vehicle so please elaborate how it doesn't matter?
18 Jul 2020, 20:05 PM
#30
Posts: 5279
The standard value for tanks is 0.5 other than USF which has 0.75 because their theme is "mobility".
So why should the Valentine have 0.75? It's not fair considering the timing. It means it has a easier time hitting LVs+ medium tanks without stop-microing every shot. It's relevant against any vehicle so please elaborate how it doesn't matter?
Ostheer thing is squishy infantry but have multiple doctrinal options for having more durable units. Soviet thing is shitty armour but have doctrinal armour that isn't shitty....
Doctrines bring something new to the faction. In this case it's a mobile medium light tank.
#stalinwept
18 Jul 2020, 20:16 PM
#31
Posts: 84
Unit is doctrinal so must be braindead broken hurr durr
18 Jul 2020, 20:20 PM
#32
Posts: 5279
No, doctrinal units need to be balanced but are not necessarily bound by stock design. Fuck. Soviet literally have a Sherman. How come they have a unit that uses USFs "thing"?
#stalinwept
18 Jul 2020, 21:44 PM
#33
Posts: 833
It does have 0.75 moving accuracy but accuracy is not used when facing anti-tank guns or infantry. Also it has 7 speed which is indeed fast, but it's the same speed as units like the T-70 or the Stuart or the Cromwell.
It's a doctrinal unit, it's supposed to be good. Adjusting it further has to be done in a careful way. Nerfing its hitpoints to 400 so that it can get snared with one Faust would be a huge nerf. I would prefer baby steps and remove its oppressiveness (the fast call in and re-call in times) first before going after performance (which always has a good chance of ruining the unit).
Pls explain why a command vehicle that is supposed to synergize with sexton comes at a different timing to sexton.
You guys made the same mistake with the Valentine as you did with the command tiger, they are both used as combat units and have combat unit vet rather than stuff that buffs them in the command role.
IMO Valentine should have vet that reduces the muni cost of its abilities, this would help the sexton too and promote combined arms.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
18 Jul 2020, 21:50 PM
#34
Posts: 833
The standard value for tanks is 0.5 other than USF which has 0.75 because their theme is "mobility".
So why should the Valentine have 0.75? It's not fair considering the timing. It means it has a easier time hitting LVs+ medium tanks without stop-microing every shot. It's relevant against any vehicle so please elaborate how it doesn't matter?
I imagine because it's old role was one of a cruiser tank. Let's not forget on release Valentine had crush and worked as a mini medium and had enough firepower to pack a punch vs P4.
It's only now it's been phased into the command role. But in reality works as a doctrinal T70, just with no auto canon.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
18 Jul 2020, 21:56 PM
#35
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
I imagine because it's old role was one of a cruiser tank. Let's not forget on release Valentine had crush and worked as a mini medium and had enough firepower to pack a punch vs P4.
It's only now it's been phased into the command role. But in reality works as a doctrinal T70, just with no auto canon.
And it still is.
It was given command tank name to justify limit of 1.
It is supposed to work as doctrinal beefed up stuart.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Jul 2020, 21:58 PM
#36
Posts: 833
And it still is.
It was given command tank name to justify limit of 1.
It is supposed to work as doctrinal beefed up stuart.
The patch notes disagree
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
18 Jul 2020, 23:59 PM
#37
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The standard value for tanks is 0.5 other than USF which has 0.75 because their theme is "mobility".
So why should the Valentine have 0.75? It's not fair considering the timing. It means it has a easier time hitting LVs+ medium tanks without stop-microing every shot. It's relevant against any vehicle so please elaborate how it doesn't matter?
Lol where do you see me saying "it doesn't matter"? I just said it's not OP. I asked for someone to explain how .75 moving accuracy makes it OP, which you still haven't done
I'm aware of what other tanks are, I'm aware that USF has better moving acc. Still has nothing to do with my question. I don't think it's too strong against lights, it arrives later than most of them
Against anything larger than that? It does 120 damage, 40 range, and has t34/76 penetration. Again, what's the issue here? Besides not being locked in tech/having a build time
19 Jul 2020, 00:07 AM
#38
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Lol where do you see me saying anything close to "it doesn't matter"? I just said it's not OP. I asked for someone to explain how .75 moving accuracy makes it OP, which you still haven't done
I'm aware of what other tanks are, I'm aware that USF has better moving acc. Still has nothing to do with my question. I don't think it's too strong against lights, it arrives later than most of them
Against anything larger than that? It does 120 damage, 40 range, and has t34/76 penetration. Again, what's the issue here? Besides not being locked in tech/having a build time
Once more the comparison with the T-34/76 makes little sense.
Valentines combines a number of stat like:
The mobility of light vehicle
The target size of light
Superior armor
Superior HP
A dual purpose role gun unlike most lights
Spotting
Smoke
barrage
Most of those stat are not impressive on their own but all together and not tech instant production make a great combo.
19 Jul 2020, 00:09 AM
#39
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Once more the comparison with the T-34/76 makes little sense.
Valentines combines a number of stat like:
The mobility of light vehicle
The target size of light
Superior armor
Superior HP
A dual purpose role gun
Spotting
Smoke
A barrage
You seriously reading that as a t34 comparison? I mention it once in the entire post, and it was LITERALLY only to provide reference for the penetration value to a common unit that everyone uses
You could not have possibly misrepresented that post more. You have ignored most of what the post was about...
19 Jul 2020, 00:10 AM
#40
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
You seriously reading that as a t34 comparison? I mention it once in the entire post, and it was LITERALLY only to provide reference for the penetration value to a common unit that everyone uses
You could not have possibly misrepresented that post more
Well you can choose better units for comparison.
The gun is similar to AEC in AT and it has great AI on top of that.
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