Introduction
So I would like to discuss the rocket artillery, ideas behind it and how it fits the game, from my perspective.
I dont want to point towards any specific factions, since all of them more or less can abuse rocket artillery and be abused by it. Some more, some less.
To make it simple, there are only two types of rocket artillery in the game, the first one is being Stuka and the second one the rest.
As I see it, rocket artillery is suppose to be:
- Area denial
- Blob punisher
- Defense breacher
Problem is it usually results in wipes, which cant be avoided. Even if dont blob, even if you retreat the second you hear the salvo, it still wipes, resulting only frustration among players.
Loosing high vetted unit to a lucky rocket which hits you in the middle of the squad on retreat, is painful. And it become even more painful, when you realize that loosing one or two vet units may result to a loss of the game itself.
Problems are less persistent in 1v1 but become more and more present in a teamgames.
Suggestion
Right now all rocket arty deals 80 damage on direct hit, meaning it will always kill a model if it hits.
My suggestion is simple - lowering its damage to be 70 or 75 on direct hit and maybe applying suppression just like panzerwerfer, but without pinning.
What it will change:
Full HP squads wont be one shotter, but would be left almost dead, anything shooting at them will almost instantly kill them.
Why I don't think it would make it weaker:
- Blobs will still be destroyed or left crippled to be finished off by other means + suppression would counter them even more.
- Support weapons would require to be pulled off to be healed or again face annihilation of anything attack them
- If any kind of unit, won't be fully healed it will be possible wiped just like before.
- Players will still be required to fully heal their squads, meaning you will be delaying your enemy
What improvements it will bring:
- No RNG wipes, if properly retreated your full HP squad won't die to random rocket.
- It will be more tactical, you would either have to fight the enemy before to lower HP of his squads before using arty or catch him on his retreat path.
- If a player still wants to play using rocket arty, he would have to build two of them and shoot both of them at the same time at the same place to wipe anything that has full HP. But this will come at the cost of population and resources
- No more RNG blaming if you get your stuff wiped, only you to be blamed. All risks are calculated and predictable.
- Instead of click and pray RNG, players would have to aim at retreat paths and look for momentum to use barrage.
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And now stuka zu fuss.
Honestly I think its outdated badly. Its main balance comes from the hands of whom is using it. In right hands its the most OP arty in the game (shooting at retreat path) in wrong hands its easily avoidable and predictable.
I would rather see it shooting 3 rockets in the small circle, but its just my opinion. It feels like, originally this unit was created as a *cool feature*, rather then something that fits the game.
Nice first post.
Imo arty is fine. Removing every onuce of rng doesnt suit the game. this is what makes coh2 fun. |
Yeah sure, but what's the point? In the end the only thing you'd gain is a weapon crew squad that would have next to zero combat potential. Even for capping that would not be worth the population they'd take up.
I do like the concept as something that could be looked at if there's ever going to be a CoH3. It would create interesting tactical decisions; say your vet 2-3 ATG is caught out of position by enemy infantry and you could either try to reverse it to try to deny the enemy the weapon or you could choose to ditch the gun (essentially gifting it to the enemy) but save the highly vetted crew for use later. It could be an interesting mechanic.
NO. Yo could get infinte main line inf or pios. Recrew at gun with 4 man pio -> 3models on the gun, 1 spare. Decrew. Voila. 2 seperate squads. Reinforce both and repeat |
A lot of you dont care about 4v4 thats great i dont care about 1v1 its boring. Also i believe statistics say more peolple play 4v4 than any other category.
It really sucks right and here is a few key points on why.
Allied mediums, almost every axis unit has snares a snared allied medium is a dead tank almost guaranteed. A snared panther not a dead tank even snared reverses faster than allied inf can chase it (plus they only have zooks most wont pen). Plus health buff makes it perfect for behind enemy lines attacks with no reprecusions. Allied medium reverses slower shrek blob when shrek does basicly same dmg as a main gun tank hit.
Okw poor design flak truck denying area, even if destroyed by the time it is dosent mean much vs area denial it already caused and the forced all in type of attack it forces allies to use, if it goes wrong way game over.
Super tanks always been fucking dumb build one elephant now all allied armor is useless while you have free reign to use your tanks. Only countered by mark target and heavy all in allied td manuevers also if the guy has a brain prolly all dead allied tanks if he clicks the u button and reverses it, spotting scopes plus most likely an okw partner with arty flares you would have to be a fucking moron to lose it.
Blobs only truly punishable by allied caliope(doctarate required) and a close range katusha ( highly risky takes time to fire unlike alpha strike werfer (oddly really hard to hear with other shit going on) apparently some people dont know how to use it because it deletes units and only has to fire on volley before you put it back) our mgs none of them can pen more than 2 squads and it has to Be microed to even do that. At the same time axis access to blob punishable tools non doctrinal. Promote your blobing but not the enemys.
Arty flares??????? Why is this not fixed. No flanking manuevers cant even set my mg that cant pen units unless supported but they know where it is fucking rediculous.
Allied vs axis inf, well you have great close range units, that great dosent mean dick when i lose 2 models on approach now does it into your fusiler blob. Worthless. Sure i can hide around corners, grenade your blob dosent really seem to matter.
Special note for cry baby okw: they never had a medium tank, people cried they got the best non stock Medium
One, never had artillery because they had non doc stuka that is capable of countering allied artillery, tanks, wipe squads, and make team weapons un recrewable, crybabies: its too hard to counter british emplacements, brit emplacements Were nerfed hard cant survive 30 secs vs a good player with out arty, now in every single 4v4 okw lefh arty hard to get past the flak truck and the fwd retreat, weird sounds like bofors aand mortar pit hmmm. Point is they only got lefh for crybabys that couldnt use alll the other tools to counter brits emplacements in the first place. Brit emplacements get nerfed to useless but okw keeps lefh i dont understand how anyone can see that as wrong.
Okw crybabies claiming they have no
Garrison clearing tools when sturms usually will get to said garrison at first if not can go to a side with no windows and win anway because they somehow shoot through walls, relic gives them flame nuke only its great at death looping all soviet team weps and pretty much great at ensuring winning all first enouncters still
Late game your axis and losing just spam panthers and shrek blobs it will win every single time. Allied inf cant kill any of the shrek
Inf fast enough they just ignore you and or have grenades to make up for it. Allied inf has no at unless you want to blob rangers with zooks, other hand you catch and isu152 off guard with shrek blob its dead. I find it hilarious that in 4v4 smart axis players nust spam shrek blobs and panthers, panthers mg should have shit AI i call it the machine gun carrier its better at killing inf than the eZ8 and thats hilarious. Panthers have too much health allied td spam cant even deal with it.
I mean isu152 HE rounds are saving grace, calliope, priest, maybe croc church, other than that we have shit tools to win a 4v4 on equal skill
After watching your playercard i can savely assume, that everything you encounter is a l2p issue. You are an allies only player in a high 3 digit rating with a win ratio of less than 50%.
Imo allies have better win rates in 3v3 and 4v4 overall. |
General logic that applies to any multiplayer game composed of random teams:
In an average to decent matchmaking:
-No matter what you do, you will lose 20% of your games.
This becomes more reliable the more players you add to the equation.
-No matter what you do, you will win 20% of your games.
Same shit applies in the other way. You will get carried no matter how badly you are throwing.
-This leaves you to a 60% were you have a clear influence on the result of the game.
Now you have 2 ways to improve your odds.
1-Git gud. Really.
A more elaborate explanation: when you can dominate your "lane" or your opposing opponent that you have leeway to help your teammates go from a 1v1 to a 2v1. The same goes the other way when you lose your army or have to mass retreat. Suddenly you are putting the burden on your team and reduce your winning chances.
2-Learn leadership/social skills and eat down your ego.
-Some people are good but self sabotage themselves by triggering their snowflake teammates. No matter how good or right you are, wasting time typing/insulting/criticising someone MIDGAME is pointless. Leave that for after match talk. If you don't have anything productive and CONCISE to say, stay silent.
Pro tip: if you are someone who is easy to get triggered just install autohotkey and disable the chat hotkey.
- Shotcalling. Be the leader. Initiative.
You don't need to give extensive speeches roleplaying you are a WW2 commander. If you can't keep it simple, it's pointless.
Pro tip: don't give orders. Give suggestions or information. At the end of the day you can't force others to do what you want.
- MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, if the whole team commits to something, it's better to take the wrong choice as a team rather than committing to the right call alone.
You have better chances going full stupid rather than half stupid. If someones proceeds to suicide dive, you might as well make the most out of it.
Play to win, don't play to not lose.
+1 |
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Imo grens are only an issue in 1v1. In 2v2 and going. Sniper, gren, mg starts with pgrens are way more viable anyway. A lot of people dont seem to bother the combined arms aspect. |
What a wonderful way of arguing. Next time anyone complains about anything being OP I simply demand him to waste multiple hours in order to collect some useless video footage, that contributes nothing to the actual discussion.
Perimeter Overwatch OP ? K, first show me how you win three matches in a row with it, otherwise it is fine
Isu 152 + Il2 Bombs / Elephant + Stuka OP ? K, first show me how you win three matches in a row with it, otherwise it is fine
I am not gonna waste my time collecting this footage for you, since the odds for getting Red Ball AND having a losing battle in the first place are rather slim. I could show you one recording from my last match where I turned a losing battle into a victory by using this ability, however you probably would simply shrug it off, as the enemy was around rank 1800.
But anyways ... here are some Videos from youtube, that show how strong this ability can be:
A older video, but as far as I know close the pocket was not really touched in the past 4 years ?!?
A Replay from Skippy
I see noobs getting stomped 2 times. Any other doctrine would have achieved victory nonetheless. |
If opponent is stupid to just walk on more then 1 mine and not sweep after first one, maybe.
Also, if you put mines in obvious places, they'll get sweeped, if you put it in some less frequented, they might do nothing whole game.
My point is, as amazing as mines are, they are NOT a reliable counter to anything.
Well you cant expect to have a counter everywhere they show up. They are situational, same as shocks.
If you dont manage to get them close, shocks are a mp sink vs obers. |
Demos are situational but good.
Mines have a 2 model dmg cap.
mp bleed and map control for 30 mun seems pretty good to me |
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Since this one wasnt pointed out cleraly earlier: If you cant recrew enemy team weapons, destroy them with your at.
Rebuilding stuff costs way more and takes more time. |
Well, soviets lack high explosive damage on their base roster.
By high explosive I'm talking about high aoe damage profiles (damage that circurvents their recived accuracy). Most of the infantry damage of the T34 comes from its machineguns. The T70 aoe its small and its more geared up for model sniping. Using a Zis barrage against them its almost suicidal, and the Su76 barrage has abysmal reload time and its in one of the worst units of the roster (The Su76 gun can't traverse, meaning the vehicle has to align perfectly against the center of enemy vehicles). Soviets can only rely on the Katyusha's alpha strike.
In terms of supression, obers laugh at maxims and can death loop them with ease. The M5 quad its too nimble against at fire. The only supression that works against them is the one coming from planes.
Mines/demo charge: am i a joke to you? |
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