Having a doctrinal option being a "braindead" option does not mean it is done "wrong".
SVT is badly designed but not because it is superior to 7 conscript.
Doctrinal option can offer something more cost efficient,something superior, something not available... but they should offer something worth a commander slot.
The thread is titled "Should doctrinal units/upgrades be superior?", and this is my interpretation of when it is done well and when it's been done less well. I don't know how you value commanders, but I don't think they should be the make or break of a game, and they should certainly not be braindead better options than given in the regular tech tree, in my opinion. |
That is false, the reload is 6.35s for the T-34-76 and 6.4s for the T-34-85 (so completely negligible). However, the T-34-85 has better scatter (5 max range vs 6.9). So the 85 is superior in regards to AI as well as AT. The only thing the T-34-76 is arguably better at is cost efficiency in certain situations.
I was under the impression that these units had a larger difference when it comes to firerate, thanks for correcting me. The firerate of the tanks was not my main concern however, but simply that both vehicles (one being a specialized version of the other) are solid picks and that given both options you don't always opt for the same one. This is not the case with a lot of commander tied stuff, examples given are svts/7men, 5 men grens/lmg, and shocks troops that has no comparison what so ever in the soviet tech tree. |
7man and svt are like 5th man and lmg for grens. It's not an upgrade over one another its a divergent path. 85mm t34 is an upgrade over the 76mm in the very literally sense.
Sure its the same, since 5men is objectively better in most situations, i.e it's a braindead choice given both options. This is the same with SVTs and 7men, where SVTs is objectively better in most situations and therefor it becomes a braindead choice, when given both options. The doctrinal stuff is better. Returning to the t34/76 vs t34/85 argument, the 85 isn't always the braindead better option, therefor i think its done right. |
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There is no better example of a straight upgrade in the entire game. Even the ost up armored p4 could be considered an alternative because it's available even without t3 of you get t4. The 85mm is better in every way with a cost to accompany it. If it's not an upgrade nothing on the entire game is (and frankly, nothing else really IS)
This is false, the 76 has a higher firerate than the 85 thus making it stronger vs infantry, for a difference of 40 fuel. If you want to look at an actual upgrade compare SVTs to 7 men for instance, svts bring way higher dmg output and you can get them way earlier (cp1) compared to tier 4, literally a better option in every way possible while 76s are not too uncommonly a better pick than an 85. |
. Completely depends. Should the t34/85 which costs more than the 76mm despite the exact se tech costs be inferior? Why? As long as access costs are comparable to the stock unit there's no reason the stock unit. Should shocks fight as well as cons because shocks are doctrinal and cons are stock?
Here is where we disagree. I think that the t34/85 is a perfect example where this is done right, its a heavier specialized at version of the 76, not a straight upgrade. The shocks however are an offender, because there is no stock assault unit in soviet roster that works in a similiar fashion, and they are not flavour because of their strength |
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It would make sense for doctrinal units to be inferior to stock units from ordinary tech. They should be there as heavily specialized versions and flavour, nothing you pick because unit x is objectively stronger than unit y from stock, which is sadly usually the case |
The majority of players probably don't know there is even a tournament on.
The game isn't big enough to warrant delaying a patch for a small tournament.
This is a big tournament for a small game, there are so many games with way higher player counts that arent seeing a quarter of the competitive love this game gets. Appreciate it for what it is, delaying it a week wouldn't matter for them but matters for the players that appreciate the competetive side. |
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Im happy for a balance patch, but first off, why do this in the middle of a tournament? 2nd, what are some of these changes supposed to change?
Goliath
Now requires 1 Command Point
?????
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Like some of your ideas, dislike others. Personally I feel with how small scope patches has been lately it might not be a good idea to make another grand tech tree redesign such as the one that got made for USF, since problems that arise might not get addressed fast enough, small changes is the way to go. |
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swingy game both ways |
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