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Pack Howie

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10 Apr 2020, 12:43 PM
#21
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2904 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 09:51 AMVipper
Pak should simply moved to t4 and replace scott. Mortar move to Captain, Scott then could become doctrinal.

That would kill to bird with one stone.



No
10 Apr 2020, 13:39 PM
#26
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 12:40 PMKatitof

Which holds little to no value, since its the same 3 people taking turns in remaking the threads instead of accepting the fact that largest balance issue is between chair and keyboard.



While the a member of the balance team said "it is op" ... so ure just wrong face it.

dude it rly annoying to go on with this...
the funny thing is that Ost got major buffs ... while u telling us al is "OK" all the time... and its all an L2P issue.
10 Apr 2020, 14:14 PM
#27
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1546 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 09:51 AMVipper
Pak should simply moved to t4 and replace scott. Mortar move to Captain, Scott then could become doctrinal.

That would kill to bird with one stone.


Mortar should stay in T0. It's there to help USF with MG42 early game otherwise USF gets stuck going Capt every game there is any semi-problematic garrison. If anything I think they should swap around the AoE profiles - makes the Scott's shell the more damaging one and tweak the shell velocity and what not accordingly. Only issue I can see is the mobility/skill smoke being obnoxious but when you tie that punishing arty to later tech and fuel it's less spammable. Also, you can't recrew Scotts when destroyed which is part of the problem with Pak Howies...
10 Apr 2020, 14:19 PM
#28
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8836 | Subs: 1



Mortar should stay in T0. It's there to help USF with MG42 early game otherwise USF gets stuck going Capt every game there is any semi-problematic garrison.

Not really they still have access to grenades and vehicles from LT (which is currently a far better choice than captain). They also have a number of doctrinal options.

If something Ostheer have trouble vs USF and there is little reason to buff Ostheer.

Moving to captain ( not require second tech) is neither that late or expensive to get access to.


If anything I think they should swap around the AoE profiles - makes the Scott's shell the more damaging one and tweak the shell velocity and what not accordingly. Only issue I can see is the mobility/skill smoke being obnoxious but when you tie that punishing arty to later tech and fuel it's less spammable. Also, you can't recrew Scotts when destroyed which is part of the problem with Pak Howies...


My point is that USF went from having limited access to indirect fire to have more than they need so some of these units with either be OP or UP due to overlap.

There is simply not reason for mortar/howitzer/Scott/Major barrage all to be available stock and with little side tech.
10 Apr 2020, 15:43 PM
#29
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 14:19 PMVipper

Not really they still have access to grenades and vehicles from LT (which is currently a far better choice than captain). They also have a number of doctrinal options.

If something Ostheer have trouble vs USF and there is little reason to buff Ostheer.

Moving to captain ( not require second tech) is neither that late or expensive to get access to.



My point is that USF went from having limited access to indirect fire to have more than they need so some of these units with either be OP or UP due to overlap.

There is simply not reason for mortar/howitzer/Scott/Major barrage all to be available stock and with little side tech.


No rocket arty, no heavy tanks, has to tech for MGs. I think it's ok if USF gets decent arty options.

Complaining about pak howie just marks you as a noob. Theyre easy to decrew, theyre easy to flank, theyre easy to counterbarrage(looking at you axis). Theyre stupid, stupid easy to counter. It does its job effectively, its a shock unit. Learn to adapt and overcome Axis players.
10 Apr 2020, 15:44 PM
#30
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 96

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 14:19 PMVipper

Not really they still have access to grenades and vehicles from LT (which is currently a far better choice than captain). They also have a number of doctrinal options.

If something Ostheer have trouble vs USF and there is little reason to buff Ostheer.

Moving to captain ( not require second tech) is neither that late or expensive to get access to.



My point is that USF went from having limited access to indirect fire to have more than they need so some of these units with either be OP or UP due to overlap.

There is simply not reason for mortar/howitzer/Scott/Major barrage all to be available stock and with little side tech.

Ah yes the unironic "smoke and flank" arguement. That thing they figured out wasnt really viable if the ost player builds 2 mg 42s. Oh but wont someone please think or the poor ost players! if only they had access to some form of indirect to deal with a short range mortar. Oh wait. As of right now the USF has two problem units: the pack howie and Jackson. Other than that, If it ain't broke, dont fix it.
10 Apr 2020, 15:47 PM
#32
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 137

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 15:46 PMVipper

When was the last time you played the game again?


He is right though. back when USF didnt have a mortar it was hell to play.

also going lt will leave you opeen for the super fair and balanced flame halftrack that will run down your units.

it should remain t0
10 Apr 2020, 15:47 PM
#33
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 15:46 PMVipper

When was the last time you played the game again?


3 days ago?

I mean I guess I get your problems Vipper, you play exclusively 4v4 so I'm sure a team of pak howies is quite annoying. But you know what balance team says about 4v4s...guess you're out of luck, chuck.
10 Apr 2020, 15:51 PM
#34
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8836 | Subs: 1



3 days ago?

I mean I guess I get your problems Vipper, you play exclusively 4v4 so I'm sure a team of pak howies is quite annoying. But you know what balance team says about 4v4s...guess you're out of luck, chuck.

1) pak howitzer is used in all MODs
2) Double pak howitzer are also used
3) The mod has made a number of changes of specifically for 3vs4 4vs4 so what is say is simply
wrong.


Last you have no idea about me and I am happy to inform you I have no problems I am very happy thank you.
10 Apr 2020, 15:51 PM
#35
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8836 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 15:47 PMTheMux2


He is right though. back when USF didnt have a mortar it was hell to play.

also going lt will leave you opeen for the super fair and balanced flame halftrack that will run down your units.

it should remain t0

No his is not. In addition the USF tech changes have completely changed the faction.


Finally I did not suggest to remove the mortar.

Currently the P.H. is OP if one nerf it will not be seen again since the mortar will always be available and it will get the job done. Something has to change in the tech.
10 Apr 2020, 15:57 PM
#36
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 15:51 PMVipper

No his is not. In addition the USF tech changes have completely changed the faction.


Finally I did not suggest to remove the mortar.

Currently the P.H. is OP if one nerf it will not be seen again since the mortar will always be available and it will get the job done. Something has to change in the tech.


No vipper, something does not have to change in the tech. USF is finally flowing well with the pacing of its power spikes. It took years to fix USF to get it to that point and its not going to change because the same 3 people have a hard time decrewing pak howies(tip: try the counterbarrage ability on axis IDF units if you feel your micro isn't up to the task).
10 Apr 2020, 15:59 PM
#37
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 137



No vipper, something does not have to change in the tech. USF is finally flowing well with the pacing of its power spikes. It took years to fix USF to get it to that point and its not going to change because the same 3 people have a hard time decrewing pak howies(tip: try the counterbarrage ability on axis IDF units if you feel your micro isn't up to the task).


If anything, counter barrage should be changed
10 Apr 2020, 15:59 PM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8836 | Subs: 1



No vipper, something does not have to change in the tech. USF is finally flowing well with the pacing of its power spikes. It took years to fix USF to get it to that point and its not going to change because the same 3 people have a hard time decrewing pak howies(tip: try the counterbarrage ability on axis IDF units if you feel your micro isn't up to the task).

Ok you want to troll, you are on your own.
(reducing balance to debate into "same 3 people have a hard time" can not be the basis of any meaningful debate)
10 Apr 2020, 16:02 PM
#39
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2566 | Subs: 1

Give the pak howitzer 6 men again, make it's AOE less prone to wipes by spreading out the damage
10 Apr 2020, 16:03 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15714 | Subs: 7

Ah, the classic "you don't agree with me, therefore you are troll", I was wondering why it took so long.

Also, unit being used in all game modes isn't exactly good argument when claiming its op, otherwise all mainlines are op.

If you can use multiple manpower expensive indirect fire units, it means opponent camps so hard its needed or opponent isn't aggressive enough/easy to fend off to allow to pressure him from distance.

Indirect fire and arty was addressed in previous patches, pack howi being unchanged should be an indicator of its intended performance, which is in line with its cost and timing.
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