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USF Airborne Company

2 Apr 2020, 19:25 PM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



No. P47 is well worth the price. The weapon drops are good because the idea is to crew them with Pathfinders to get self-spotting team weapons.

The commander is not bad I agree, on the other hand it overlaps too much with reckon which is is simply better.
2 Apr 2020, 19:25 PM
#22
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



No. P47 is well worth the price.

It misses way too much especially against mediums of any kind. Its not even that good against heavies, which are the only tanks you pretty much use it on. It is not worth 240 muni on a commander and faction thats already one of the most muni dependant in the game


The weapon drops are good because the idea is to crew them with Pathfinders to get self-spotting team weapons.

Correct.... that has nothing to do with what I just said about them (and AT gun can already self spot at vet 1):

There's just some things that are outdated, the weapon drop being 2 separate slots for example

Not saying to remove, saying they should be merged
2 Apr 2020, 19:40 PM
#23
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

airborne company is simply put amazing, one of my most played usf commanders. The flexibility to go for Stuart and pak or pack howi + mg is amazing. Paras are great and pathfinders are really strong in the early game and sinergize perfectly in with Jacksons in the lategame. This commander is pretty awesome. The thing you lack in artillery you make up with firepower and an amazing erlygame due to pathfinder either completly shutting down OKW, or spotting so you dont run into mg42
2 Apr 2020, 19:48 PM
#24
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I dont see anyone saying its bad. There's just some things that are outdated, the weapon drop being 2 separate slots for example


Huh? You want both of them dropped at the same time? That's a nerf though.


jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2020, 19:25 PMVipper

The commander is not bad I agree, on the other hand it overlaps too much with reckon which is is simply better.


Not really, Airbourne gives you cheap and great teamweapon accessibility, spammable elite infantry and an anti-vehicle loiter. Recon Support gives you long sight infantry (let's be real nobody uses airbourne paths) with the most broken arty, huge value combat group elite inf + pack howie, call in LV which is good for double officer builds and a fantastic anti support weapons off map.
2 Apr 2020, 19:51 PM
#25
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



I am not sure if target priority for the scoped garand is low health entities. If you have 2 scoped garands, the chances of targetting a low health entity increases.


The reason 2 may be worse is because it takes significantly longer for the snipers to shoot, and they're only effective from about 27-35. Once they hit 25 their accuracy is at a point where the snipers are more RNG rifles as opposed to actually snipers. That said, 2 scoped garands is still good with rifle support, alone as a unit though you'd rather very much have the I&Rs.
2 Apr 2020, 19:59 PM
#26
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Huh? You want both of them dropped at the same time? That's a nerf though.


No its not. The freed up commander ability slot is worth a lot more than the inconvenience of having to change your build order to accommodate for a new change (welcome to CoH2)


spammable elite infantry


Cp3 360mp and 90-120munitions is not spammable. You're better off "spamming" the mainline you already have, which still has a snare and you can build from the very beginning
2 Apr 2020, 20:15 PM
#27
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 784

P47s are also way overpriced. I think all loiters should just be replaced with something else, but if they're staying p47s could use a slight buff OR cost reduction


The P-47 rocket strike is bugged. The extra damage modifier it is supposed to get for damaging tanks is mistakenly and bizarrely instead applied to UKF emplacements. I made a thread on this some time ago and proved it did not function properly with tests.
2 Apr 2020, 20:46 PM
#28
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Huh? You want both of them dropped at the same time? That's a nerf though.



attatch them to pathfinder beacons but not unlocked till they are now. boom. merged into 1 slot without being cumbersome to use by having to drop both. bonus of making paths more organic in the commander
2 Apr 2020, 21:14 PM
#29
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



attatch them to pathfinder beacons but not unlocked till they are now. boom. merged into 1 slot without being cumbersome to use by having to drop both. bonus of making paths more organic in the commander



Then also attach both Paratroopers and the P47 to the Pathfinder beacons: BOOM, problem solved. You then have 4 slots to make the commander into the USF version of Grand Offensive.
2 Apr 2020, 21:26 PM
#30
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


....
Not really, Airbourne gives you cheap and great teamweapon accessibility, spammable elite infantry and an anti-vehicle loiter. Recon Support gives you long sight infantry (let's be real nobody uses airbourne paths) with the most broken arty, huge value combat group elite inf + pack howie, call in LV which is good for double officer builds and a fantastic anti support weapons off map.

Reckon is used more than Airborne and the overlap is there:
Pathfinders/I&R Pathfinders
Paratroopers/Paratroopers Support squad
Tech flexibility
and they both have off maps that although different are still off maps with Reckon being more cost efficient
2 Apr 2020, 21:33 PM
#31
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2020, 21:26 PMVipper

Reckon is used more than Airborne and the overlap is there:
Pathfinders/I&R Pathfinders
Paratroopers/Paratroopers Support squad
Tech flexibility
and they both have off maps that although different are still off maps with Reckon being more cost efficient


Only clear overlap imo is on paratroopers. Paths don't overlap because IR Paths are often used to great effect while Pathfinders are very seldom used and much worse. Tech flexibility is kind of inaccurate since the combat group is more appealing for its huge value for cost than for allowing you to skip the full Captain tier, so I'd say there's a bit of overlap there but also a fundamental difference.

I wouldn't say that's bad, there's a lot of doctrines that overlap a lot, such as Strategic Reserves and Mechanized Assault for example.
2 Apr 2020, 22:37 PM
#32
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Only clear overlap imo is on paratroopers. Paths don't overlap because IR Paths are often used to great effect while Pathfinders are very seldom used and much worse. Tech flexibility is kind of inaccurate since the combat group is more appealing for its huge value for cost than for allowing you to skip the full Captain tier, so I'd say there's a bit of overlap there but also a fundamental difference.

I wouldn't say that's bad, there's a lot of doctrines that overlap a lot, such as Strategic Reserves and Mechanized Assault for example.

Tech flexibility is there because Reckon allows both pack and light vehicles access regardless of tech path.

Overlap might be a good or bad thing but my point is that currently this overlap seems to make Reckon chosen over Airborne. There far less overlap between mechanized assault and Strategic reserves which ends at assault grenadier (although one could make a case for Tiger and Tiger ACE).

My point is that if one wants to make Airborne more attractive one should probably change the Reckon also and removed some of the overlap.

I have actually made some suggestions about this.
2 Apr 2020, 22:38 PM
#33
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



I think this is mostly due to that health cut off for snipes. Iirc, JLI can crit on entities under 75% HP, gerands only under 40% HP.

Edit: also, I think the range profile of the other squad members helps the JLI to more easily get long range crits, as I think the Kar98s are better at long range than the M1 Carbines of the pathfinders.


I've tested it.

For the snipe to occur, the entity needs to be at or lower than the threshold BEFORE the damage applies. So if the dmg from the sniper rifles would put it below that number, it just deals regular damage (compared to snares).

This means that for JLI, the threshold is 60HP and for Path it's 32HP.
Both scoped rifles deal 16dmg. So the maximum bonus damage the snipe deals are either 44dmg or 16dmg.

This is the reason Paths feels that they are dealing less "burst" dmg or chunking squads down.
2 Apr 2020, 22:46 PM
#34
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Then also attach both Paratroopers and the P47 to the Pathfinder beacons: BOOM, problem solved. You then have 4 slots to make the commander into the USF version of Grand Offensive.


Can you just explain why you don't like the idea instead of being kinda trolly about it? USF has already had Grand Offensive for some time, its called Heavy Cav which is a way stronger commander than Airborne, and would still be much stronger even with Armadillos idea of moving the weapon drops to the pathfinder beacons...



The P-47 rocket strike is bugged. The extra damage modifier it is supposed to get for damaging tanks is mistakenly and bizarrely instead applied to UKF emplacements. I made a thread on this some time ago and proved it did not function properly with tests.


I missed this when you initially posted it, but I am not in the least bit surprised. Its damage is regularly underwhelming for its price

2 Apr 2020, 22:51 PM
#35
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

I like the idea of adding the support weapons to the beacon as a call-in.

Not sure what to add to replace them though. Maybe a smoke barrage like in heavy cav?

Not sure what the other slot could be.

Side note: I would use recon more tbh but I HATE getting a pak every time I want to get paras. Especially if I want to call them in behind the enemy.
2 Apr 2020, 23:18 PM
#36
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Huh? You want both of them dropped at the same time? That's a nerf though.




Not really, Airbourne gives you cheap and great teamweapon accessibility, spammable elite infantry and an anti-vehicle loiter. Recon Support gives you long sight infantry (let's be real nobody uses airbourne paths) with the most broken arty, huge value combat group elite inf + pack howie, call in LV which is good for double officer builds and a fantastic anti support weapons off map.

I know you were replying to someone else but what I suggested was giving the drops to paths or their beacons instead while still keeping them separate (separate ability for HMG drop and for AT gun drop.

There's nothing that really makes paras more spammable than any other elite infantry. They don't have snares and either have long or short range weapons. They're a great unit but not any more spammable than rangers or obers or guards or shocks. If anything, they're less so because they come at 3cp, later than soviet elite infantry and later than falls.


No its not. The freed up commander ability slot is worth a lot more than the inconvenience of having to change your build order to accommodate for a new change (welcome to CoH2)



Cp3 360mp and 90-120munitions is not spammable. You're better off "spamming" the mainline you already have, which still has a snare and you can build from the very beginning

Dropping both at the same time would be unwieldy and annoying. IMO the proposal in OP would be a better solution.

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2020, 22:51 PMGrim
I like the idea of adding the support weapons to the beacon as a call-in.

Not sure what to add to replace them though. Maybe a smoke barrage like in heavy cav?

Not sure what the other slot could be.

Side note: I would use recon more tbh but I HATE getting a pak every time I want to get paras. Especially if I want to call them in behind the enemy.

I already made suggestions for what it should be replaced with in OP. Giving on-demand smoke to a commander with Thompson paratroopers would be a huge middle finger to ost, so please no.
3 Apr 2020, 00:04 AM
#37
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Can you just explain why you don't like the idea instead of being kinda trolly about it?


Airbourne is NOT a bad commander.
3 Apr 2020, 01:06 AM
#38
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1





Again I don't see anyone saying it's bad. Just clearly not as good as other options, including 2 that also have elite infantry (heavy cav, recon support)


Dropping both at the same time would be unwieldy and annoying. IMO the proposal in OP would be a better solution.


Doesn't have to be dropped at same time, just any proposal that merges them I'm good with. I think they should remain at least 1 commander ability, Armadillos idea is same as yours but they still take up one shot
3 Apr 2020, 02:02 AM
#39
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

If you gave SMGs to Support Paratroopers you'd never see Airborne again.

The Strafe is just cute, maybe it can help vs a snared heavy, but otherwise it is inferior to cheaper and more packed skillplanes. Skipping tech is less of an asset now, even after the double officer nerfs, Pathfinders don't play well into USF's plan of rushing into CQC at all.

I doubt it will ever see another change, maybe a buff somewhere down the line and that is, it's unlikely to ever receive a giant change given Thompsons Paratroopers are super good and it's true saving grace.
3 Apr 2020, 04:06 AM
#40
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053




I would argue it's not a super good commander either. There's a difference between being grand offensive and being a fairly competitive pick, and airborne is not either right now.

If all you're going to do is be obnoxiously hyperbolic why even take the time to write anything?
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