Can we adjust the late game performance of Volks? I think they are a little bit to weak compared to other units.
My suggestion is to give them better k98 at vet5 similar to infantry sections, but this could be quite diffcult to balance.
The simpler solution is to give them an acc bonus on vet 4 => now they get 40% acc from vet 0->5 like most units.
COH2 winter balance mod - discussion
31 Jan 2020, 11:31 AM
#541
Posts: 213
31 Jan 2020, 12:06 PM
#542
Posts: 214
Can we adjust the late game performance of Volks? I think they are a little bit to weak compared to other units.
My suggestion is to give them better k98 at vet5 similar to infantry sections, but this could be quite diffcult to balance.
The simpler solution is to give them an acc bonus on vet 4 => now they get 40% acc from vet 0->5 like most units.
The only thing Volks have to do in late game is to hold back anything that trys to get to your Obers.
There is no need for buffing them. They are a medicore mainline inf and that's all. There strengh is about there utility. Build cover ... force others out of cover and "fausting" that moves.
For OKW there much bigger problems than volks right now.
- no caches
- Uhu fuckt up
- Medicore doctrines
- 60TD Meta
- lack of At
- timing and arrivel of the Flakhalftrack
- Sturmtiger still bad even after a buff
- ....
31 Jan 2020, 12:20 PM
#543
Posts: 1289
The only thing Volks have to do in late game is to hold back anything that trys to get to your Obers.
There is no need for buffing them. They are a medicore mainline inf and that's all. There strengh is about there utility. Build cover ... force others out of cover and "fausting" that moves.
For OKW there much bigger problems than volks right now.
- no caches
- Uhu fuckt up
- Medicore doctrines
- 60TD Meta
- lack of At
- timing and arrivel of the Flakhalftrack
- Sturmtiger still bad even after a buff
- ....
Okw is the only cause of the 60 range td meta. Having more better armoured units then ost out of the gate. Having a 300 armour high hp high damage superheavy stock.
Now take into account that allies have lower pen and also half the damage in about half the cases then axis in at options vs much much higher armoured tanks before the td buffs. You can make them fire fast as machine guns if you want but no pen is no damage. The chance to bounce was just to high.
You do know prior to the td buff allied late game was basicly dead.
But as it is now axis meds bite the dust cus okw has the kt non doc. I am not sure what can be done but as ling as the kt is non doc we cant nerf the allied td,s in terms of pen.
31 Jan 2020, 12:29 PM
#544
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
...
Now take into account that allies have lower pen and also half the damage in about half the cases then axis in at options vs much much higher armoured tanks before the td buffs.
...
That is simply incorrect in the current patch (as the sentence clearly indicates. Previous patches are rather irrelevant), SU-85 and M36 have some of highest stock penetration values once vetted and M36 get AP round on top of that.
(edited to clarify and include the whole sentence)
31 Jan 2020, 12:37 PM
#545
Posts: 213
The only thing Volks have to do in late game is to hold back anything that trys to get to your Obers.
There is no need for buffing them. They are a medicore mainline inf and that's all. There strengh is about there utility. Build cover ... force others out of cover and "fausting" that moves.
For OKW there much bigger problems than volks right now.
- no caches
- Uhu fuckt up
- Medicore doctrines
- 60TD Meta
- lack of At
- timing and arrivel of the Flakhalftrack
- Sturmtiger still bad even after a buff
- ....
Obers? Have not seen this unit in the last 2 big tournaments. I think that speaks volume.
Mediocre? They are the worst t0 nondoc infantry in the lategame.
Uhu doesnt matter. Remove the unit and nothing changes.
Caches? 223 and ost can do that.
Td60? Jp4 and raks are hard counter.
Yeah some docs are lackluster. ST is fine.
Lack of at and flak ht????
31 Jan 2020, 12:43 PM
#546
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Now take into account that allies have lower pen and also half the damage in about half the cases then axis in at options
That's mostly false, most Allied vehicles (TDs, mediums, heavies) have higher penetration than their Axis counterparts and deal exactly the same damage. ATGs are mostly similar (the M1 having the worst stock pen but the highest pen with the special ammo).
Only Panzerschrecks have a distinct advantage over Bazookas and PIATs (though only in penetration and damage, as they lack ROF and accuracy), and only the Tiger II deals more damage than other heavies.
31 Jan 2020, 12:47 PM
#547
Posts: 1273
To discuss the point mentioned earlier and above me.. someone did the maths once, taking into account damage and armor values and other minor stats, including vet. The legends were quantified as true, axis generally got better pen/damage/armor/dps(etc) ratio even just minor. This was a >year ago, so things might be lightly different now. I can't find that thread now.
either way, that just an attempt to derail from giving feedback to a random throwaway line about schemantics to detract the discussion - usually initiated by the standard dudes..
either way, that just an attempt to derail from giving feedback to a random throwaway line about schemantics to detract the discussion - usually initiated by the standard dudes..
31 Jan 2020, 15:53 PM
#548
Posts: 808
Can we adjust the late game performance of Volks? I think they are a little bit to weak compared to other units.
My suggestion is to give them better k98 at vet5 similar to infantry sections, but this could be quite diffcult to balance.
The simpler solution is to give them an acc bonus on vet 4 => now they get 40% acc from vet 0->5 like most units.
that would just be power creep. if main lines becomes so good, ther would no point in going into elite inf. it would be better to adjust the late game of vet of other main line inf
31 Jan 2020, 16:02 PM
#549
Posts: 1289
That is simply incorrect, SU-85 and M36 have some of highest stock penetration values once vetted and M36 get AP round on top of that.
I you read until the end of that sentence you will see that i said before the td buff.
31 Jan 2020, 16:47 PM
#552
Posts: 772
Obers? Have not seen this unit in the last 2 big tournaments. I think that speaks volume.
Could you support your words with facts?
I've seen a lot of obers in recent 10K$ 1v1 championship. Just open game 1 and game 2 in Nogg vs Luvnest. It is a good unit. I don't know why people are trying to pretend it is not.
31 Jan 2020, 17:34 PM
#553
Posts: 213
Could you support your words with facts?
I've seen a lot of obers in recent 10K$ 1v1 championship. Just open game 1 and game 2 in Nogg vs Luvnest. It is a good unit. I don't know why people are trying to pretend it is not.
You are actually right. My bad. But 2/5 games seem more like situational to me. Pretty mediocre for a stock unit, which you tech always.
31 Jan 2020, 17:35 PM
#554
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
So you come back to the initial point of USF lacking TW counter.
No. The Scott is really good against team weapons. Idk how you can possibly think it's not
60 range autofire, 80 range on barrage. The Scott is really really good
31 Jan 2020, 18:10 PM
#555
Posts: 1289
That's mostly false, most Allied vehicles (TDs, mediums, heavies) have higher penetration than their Axis counterparts and deal exactly the same damage. ATGs are mostly similar (the M1 having the worst stock pen but the highest pen with the special ammo).
Only Panzerschrecks have a distinct advantage over Bazookas and PIATs (though only in penetration and damage, as they lack ROF and accuracy), and only the Tiger II deals more damage than other heavies.
When you take doctrinals unit into the comparison yes. I tend to focus mostly on stock units instead of doc ones.
Allied Td do have higher pen. Stock mediums dont while axis do have higher armour as well. Okw goes over 200 when their meds hit the field. 260 for panther i believe and 300 for kt.
So allied td,s need to be up to snuff.
31 Jan 2020, 19:11 PM
#556
Posts: 211
This isn't about the winter patch anymore. Devolved into some sort of pissing contest about TDs again.
31 Jan 2020, 21:19 PM
#557
Posts: 772
You are actually right. My bad. But 2/5 games seem more like situational to me. Pretty mediocre for a stock unit, which you tech always.
If you watched the finals you would have known that in 4 of 5 games OKW was chosen, in one Noggano rolfstomped Luvnest with cheeky USF strat and the last game... well the last game was extremely short. So in 2/4 games obers were used and in 2/2 where both players went to distance.
31 Jan 2020, 22:18 PM
#558
Posts: 309
Are they planning to update this patch soon?
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31 Jan 2020, 22:29 PM
#559
Posts: 213
If you watched the finals you would have known that in 4 of 5 games OKW was chosen, in one Noggano rolfstomped Luvnest with cheeky USF strat and the last game... well the last game was extremely short. So in 2/4 games obers were used and in 2/2 where both players went to distance.
And obers have 0 % winrate. These low sample size stat comparison is useless anyway. My point is not that obers are bad. I just think they are not an important part of the okw winning condition and therefore not the backbone of an okw lategame roster.
2 Feb 2020, 03:11 AM
#560
Posts: 3053
Why are howitzers having their pop reduced? I can see no scenario where that leads to less cancer as opposed to more cancer.
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