No.
What should be done instead is make Jackson and SU 85 have the penetration of the Firefly. That would already fix a lot of things and help balance Allied TDs against each other. That way Jackson would have the advantage of mobility and high penetration HVAP rounds, Firefly the advantage of Tulips and higher accuracy and SU 85 of reload speed and cost.
The Axis vet 2 armour buffs are good, just compare vet0 and vet 2 Ost P4 vs Allied mediums, the extra armour helps a lot. Same for Panther.
Should Wehr armor vet bonus be replaced?
24 Oct 2019, 14:42 PM
#21
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
24 Oct 2019, 14:45 PM
#22
Posts: 730
Maybe +hp and +less armor？
24 Oct 2019, 14:47 PM
#23
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Nope, with the exception of the Stug.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
24 Oct 2019, 14:49 PM
#24
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Just throwing this out there-
How about make skirts a researchable upgrade(150mp 15fuel)requiring battlephase 3 or shwerer panzer authorization and then a nominal upgrade fee for each tank(45 or 50 muni), mutually exclusive with spotting scopes and panzer commander.
Replace existing armor vet with something else.
Yeah, the armor is worthless against TDs, so having it as an upgrade like this would give axis players a choice to pick it up or not depending on the enemy composition.
That would be a nice idea but I a not sure about the MU part. All ready one has to buy pintle.
Once could try to move some armor skirts, lower price and have the upgrade cost man/fuel.
24 Oct 2019, 15:06 PM
#25
Posts: 783
That would be a nice idea but I a not sure about the MU part. All ready one has to buy pintle.
Once could try to move some armor skirts, lower price and have the upgrade cost man/fuel.
Well in the case of the Panzer 4, given your suggestion I'd say replace the armor vet bonus with a scatter vet bonus like the OKW P4(-20% scatter or something like that), then have the upgrade cost 50mp/5fuel (~15fuel) as the OKW P4 still has better scatter stock.
24 Oct 2019, 15:21 PM
#26
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
One also has to keep in mind that Panther armor bonus is not even proportional to the penetration bonus. Panther get 10% armor while:
zis 30% penetration
Su-85 30% penetration
M-4C 25% penetration
M36 30% penetration
76mm Sherman 25% penetration
FF 30% penetration
zis 30% penetration
Su-85 30% penetration
M-4C 25% penetration
M36 30% penetration
76mm Sherman 25% penetration
FF 30% penetration
24 Oct 2019, 15:28 PM
#27
Posts: 5279
Just throwing this out there-
How about make skirts a researchable upgrade(150mp 15fuel)requiring battlephase 3 or shwerer panzer authorization and then a nominal upgrade fee for each tank(45 or 50 muni), mutually exclusive with spotting scopes and panzer commander.
Replace existing armor vet with something else.
Yeah, the armor is worthless against TDs, so having it as an upgrade like this would give axis players a choice to pick it up or not depending on the enemy composition.
If we were going to remove it from vet if make t4 more expensive and add the skirts to BP3 to return the notion of linear tech with battle phases adding stuff to the units.
If it was added as a passive once BP3 was researched but the price of the armour in t3 reduced we could start so see an ostheer tech identity that's more in line with the newer WFA factions where teching isn't just unlocking new units but also an escalation of power.
#stalinwept
24 Oct 2019, 15:28 PM
#28
Posts: 1794
I dont think i seen a panther in the championship matches viewed. Sucky tank is suck.
24 Oct 2019, 15:56 PM
#29
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Maybe +hp and +less armor？
Sure let’s keep turning this into a 90s RTS where everything has a health bar and that’s it.
 | Playercard of Overweight discord mod | |||||||||||||||
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24 Oct 2019, 19:40 PM
#30
Posts: 17886 | Subs: 8
Sure let’s keep turning this into a 90s RTS where everything has a health bar and that’s it.
Even warcraft 2 had different armor types.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Oct 2019, 22:59 PM
#31
Posts: 356
I'd kinda be interested in seeing skirts as an upgrade that gives a damage reduction against infantry AT, and just enough damage reduction against normal shots to barely survive 5 hits, but I doubt that's a practical idea.
E: 4 hits
E: 4 hits
25 Oct 2019, 04:33 AM
#32
Posts: 1794
Sure let’s keep turning this into a 90s RTS where everything has a health bar and that’s it.
I thought some do want such standardise predictability. A lot bounce and different damage values have been tuned out iirc.
Tbf this is not quite related to losing variables, but to recognise the armor values are getting sadly irrelevant.
A down side to wanting a competitive out come for this game, with lesser and lesser rng.
25 Oct 2019, 15:00 PM
#33
Posts: 4928
Man you guys are going all-in on the "Allied TD's make Axis Armor useless". Why don't you just attack the source and demand the Panther, Elefant, King Tiger, and Jagdtiger get reworked so we can tone down Allied TD's then?
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
25 Oct 2019, 15:14 PM
#34
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Man you guys are going all-in on the "Allied TD's make Axis Armor useless". Why don't you just attack the source and demand the Panther, Elefant, King Tiger, and Jagdtiger get reworked so we can tone down Allied TD's then?
Find me one person who said the SU85 or the Firefly is OP and make heavy tanks useless. Just one post.
| Playercard of Overweight discord mod | |||||||||||||||
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25 Oct 2019, 15:19 PM
#35
Posts: 4474
No.well generally u get similar buffs to other medium like accuracy or reload which negates said armor buffs
What should be done instead is make Jackson and SU 85 have the penetration of the Firefly. That would already fix a lot of things and help balance Allied TDs against each other. That way Jackson would have the advantage of mobility and high penetration HVAP rounds, Firefly the advantage of Tulips and higher accuracy and SU 85 of reload speed and cost.
The Axis vet 2 armour buffs are good, just compare vet0 and vet 2 Ost P4 vs Allied mediums, the extra armour helps a lot. Same for Panther.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
25 Oct 2019, 16:08 PM
#36
Posts: 3260
I thought some do want such standardise predictability. A lot bounce and different damage values have been tuned out iirc.
Tbf this is not quite related to losing variables, but to recognise the armor values are getting sadly irrelevant.
A down side to wanting a competitive out come for this game, with lesser and lesser rng.
Armour being little protection against a dedicated tank destroyer =/= armour being irrelevant
25 Oct 2019, 19:43 PM
#37
Posts: 17886 | Subs: 8
Man you guys are going all-in on the "Allied TD's make Axis Armor useless". Why don't you just attack the source and demand the Panther, Elefant, King Tiger, and Jagdtiger get reworked so we can tone down Allied TD's then?
Because "reworking" them would make them first iteration churchills with guns on steroids or completely impotent.
For CoH2 it is way too late, but these units should NEVER be in game like CoH, super units belong to DoW series, they were always problem in CoH series and there were enough hardware participating in war to give interesting doctrinal units that aren't wet dreams of some megalomaniac.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Oct 2019, 19:57 PM
#38
Posts: 4474
Man you guys are going all-in on the "Allied TD's make Axis Armor useless". Why don't you just attack the source and demand the Panther, Elefant, King Tiger, and Jagdtiger get reworked so we can tone down Allied TD's then?more than happy to give them 300-350 armour and 1440 hp
Btw panther has 260 armour 30 less than comet
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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