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What if partisans get a complete rework into a utility unit?
Give them trash DPS like the SOV pioneers, but all kinds of goodies (might be even tech less)
AT nade, molotov, normal mine, heavy mine (like Riegel), flare mine (or alternatively the flare of SOV sniper), barbed wire, elite camo, improved cap and decap rate. Maybe even engine crit repairs (doesn't make too much sense regarding authenticity, but it's a nice ability that could synergize well with T34s ram ability since you now might have a chance to get your T34 out).
This would truly make it a behind the line squad. They lose to basically everything they come across, but they can do decent damage if you're able to sneak them around.
If that turns out to no be enough, we could upgrade them. Maybe a Panzerschreck (but lose AT nade), or PPsHs (but lose something else) etc.
However I fear that a rework like this is too much of an effort. |
Thread: Goliath14 Feb 2020, 16:49 PM
The only thing I know about the conversion between MP, fuel and mun in the final statistic.
But the efficiency is based on the damage done which itself is not the actual damage, but the economic damage. So a Con hitting a pio will get less economic damage than when he's hitting an Ober. The whole efficiency part is very whacky, especially since wipes do jot count accordingly.
In general I'd say that a unit usually becomes 'worth it' somewhere above the 300% mark, but that's just a feeling from playing the game |
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From my feeling the KT perform accordibgly well to its price. I just have the feeling that it's often not worth getting it because you have to tech up for quite a lot of fuel.
But this might be an artifact from the current heavy meta, since the Tiger is just a ton better because it comes way earlier. Maybe we have to wait and see what the heavy nerf does before deciding where exactly to put the KT |
Low risk of what? Being shot at?
Don't close the distance and you'll be fine. Other factions have it easier then play those other factions.
T1 make it more difficult to counter LVs than T2 PUMA? then go T2 PUMA to rolfstomp LVs or get better. That's the exact same shit for any faction with non linear tier, soviet T1 or T2, USF T1 or T2 and the most obvious one Brit Hammer or Anvil.
Your thread look like the one asking for 5 men grenadier. You want potent shreck squad then play Ostheer or take a doctrine. You want stock rocket artillery then don't play USF or Brit or take a doctrine etc...
Alright. I've explained my points thrice now and you still try to argue about something completely different regarding the performance vs LVs. I'm not sure why you try to make it look like I had problems with keeping LVs alive because that was never a discussion point. Driving your Luchs into bazooka Riflemen will get it killed as it shouls. Driving your T70 into Schreck Sturmpioniere will get the Schreck squad killed. Or to rephrase previous posts: an isolated zook RM squad can easily defend until help arrives. The Schreck squad can't, although being similar in MP and mun investment. Same goes for PTRS Penals and even the cheaper PIAT REs.
I also don't know why you want to keep OKW T1 shitty. Please riddle me this, since you dodged the question now multiple times: Why are Schreck Sturmpioniere almost never used in even somewhat decent games if they were absolutely fine? And why should OKW be the only faction that is locked an ATG as the sole source of AT when going T1 (this obviously supposes that the single Schreck is not sufficient on Sturmpios in its current state).
I'll leave it at that, since this thread has basically turned into a conversation between us instead of a forum discussion. |
Me : Hint, don't close de distance. Aka with your LV.
This is EXACTLY what I stated. I'll make it clear one last time: Only against single Schreck squads you can close in with low risk, because they lack both high alpha damage and a snare.
The only double standard here is you believing Zook have more range than shreck.
That one is made up again, I never said that. Point out where I made that argument.
LVs have 5 more range, keep your LV moving at max range and neither zook, ptrs, piat or shreck will be able to fire a salvo. It requires skill to do so? Yes and I'm not the best skilled player on that matter but I understand that it is the way things are balanced between them.
OKW is not the best faction equiped around handled AT, yes that's true but guess what they are the best equiped with light vehicles, the Puma own every LV and the Luch doesn't give a shit about small arms damage. Not seing the balance here is a problem of you, not the game.
Point 1 is also exactly what I said, don't try to make it look different. Matter of fact is that everyone, even top level players, eat bazookas and Schrecks because 5 meters is a distance that is easy to bridge for at least one volley.
To point 2:
Yes, OKW has the best LVs in the game. But since you always argue with faction design: What about T1? Keep it unviable forever? If OKW goes T2 they have decrnt AT options, if not they are stuck with their ATG only and a single Schreck that is pretty much useless and - as I already stated - makes your Sturmpionier helpless in 1v1 situations. |
Then after L2P, L2R? Hope you make more effort as Moderator than poster. I said "don't close the distance" with your LV if you're afraid of any kind of handle AT because AI LVs have more range. That goes the same way for everyone, every faction. You see LVs aren't counter by zook, ptrs, piat or shreck but those punish mistakes and that is how the balance works, and pretty well here.
For the rest, we simply disagree on how to balance factions. I stop here.
That was a discussion point you completely made up.
Quick recap of the discussion on that regard:
Me: My Schreck squad can get pushed around by a T70 because they can not snare nor do enough damage.
You: Then don't close in with your LV.
Not too sure what's going on here.
Anyways:
Range difference between handheld AT and Luchs/T70 and the like is if I recall correctly 5 meters. That is often what your LV needs to stop, so it puts heavier micro tax on your unit to pull it back and constantly keep driving backwards in that 5 m zone.
Those units make a LV often ineffective and hard to use in the area around them while winning in a direct fight. If PTRS don't counter LVs, why do people usually get them if a Luchs, Puma or 222 come out? Because even a slight mis-micro from your opponent will send the damaged LV back to base and make it cost ineffective. That's a counter.
PS:
I'm not going to comment anything on your insults, but you should let go of these. |
No, you're inventing the argumentation here. Zook can't outrun LVs as much as Shreck. The rest is just your babling for the sake of it.
That was your argument only, mate. I did not bring up any of it by myself.
Have other factions easier way with handled AT, that's call asymmetrical design, OKW has its own strength around it.
The upgrade is currently in the game. At the moment we could either delete it or make it usable. I say make it usable. OKW can work without the upgrade, but as a tendency this would push you into T2 for the possibility to build a Puma if necessary. A functioning light Schreck squad could help T1 builds instead so that you have an AT option outside of the ATG that could at least deter a LV.
If we go back to the aim of your topic, SP doesn't need Elite shreck because first of all, the faction isn't designed around them having performing handle AT except from doctrines.
That is the case for every doctrinal unit. No faction is designed around or relies on a doctrinal unit to be viable. But at least we can agree on that. That does not add anything to the topic though. |
Because zook can outrun a Luch? Do you like so much running in circle behind your tail? Because that is what you are doing right now.
Honestly I'm not sure what you're arguing about right now.
But if you say that Bazookas are usually on Riflemen which often have a snare by the time the Luchs comes out (plus you can put two on them for a damage of 160) is the same as Panzerschrecks on Sturmpioniere which never get a snare, then a discussion won't help much. |
it works becouse a) 2 bazookas have good dps vs light vehicles and b) ptrs units have some sort of snare (or button vehicle)
maybe single schreck upgrate should also come with some sort of snare, as an alternative solution to this problem
I agree, but the point I wanted to make is that Guarda and Penals can sustain quite a bit of fire from the Luchs until it is heavily damaged. So it's usually not a good trade for the OKW player to go 1v1 vs such a squad. With 4 man squads you have a decent chance to get your models dropped too quivkly before your T70 (in that case) has to back off.
Hint for you, don't close the distance.
Because my Sturmpioniere can outrun a T70?
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And what don't you understand from it being as per design?
Single shreck SP was never wanted but given to please the crowd. Its role is -AT Stop Gap-, not to counter LVs and even less AI LVs. You don't upgrade them because you want it but because you have no other solution. People who upgrade them for any other reason are 1- experimenting 2- wrong.
Btw you also don't counter AI LVs with zooks, even elite one.
But at least Sturmpioniere do not even fulfil their 'stop gap' function well.
And yes, you can counter a Luchs with bazookas. Just like you can counter it with PTRS Penals. Which works because they are 6 men and the Luchs can't close in to push them around. Unlike Schreck squads though. |
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