Profile of Hannibal

If there is always a better option, regardless of situation, that's a dictionary definition of lack of cost effectiveness, as there is always a better option.

Vipper is right. The problem in this situation is, that compared to units of other factions the SU76 is not that bad for the price. Just inside the SOV unit composition it is completely redundant.

Now you could make it cheaper since a unit should also be balanced according to the faction environment. It could help, but if you don't hit a very narrow sweet spot it will lead to spam and cheese strategies which would contradict the intention of basically all patches of the previous years.

Glad to see that we agree.

If you pick USF yes. The 50 cal is a good MG. Higher damage and more agile, but the arc is not as good. That's a trade off. But with slight rebalances I think USF could see less 50 cal play.

If we compare to the Vickers though, I'd say there is still a decent advantage for MG42 although it does less damage. And the Maxim is still far away from any of the other MGs in the game.

Alright, the elite PIAT thread motivated me to throw this idea into the room that has been floating around a while (note ahead: I'm discussing performance against mediums for the most part here):

Panzerschrecks are good when there are at least two of them around (see Panzergrenadiere and Panzerfüsiliere, who both get two Schrecks). Reason for that is the reliable pen against Allied stock armor and the high alpha damage (120 dmg/shot). So normally an Allied tank can eat the first salvo, but getting hit by the second salvo will become a huge gamble. If every shot hits, your tank has 160 health left. So an unsuspected ATG shot or other tank could take out your medium instantly.
Therefore you usually have to pull back your tank after the first salvo.

The biggest disadvantage of a Schreck is the long reload. The overall DPS is higher than for bazookas or PIATs (afaik), but your squad will get focused during that time.

Now a single Schreck is usually quite shit. Reason for that is that even if the first shot hits, the enemy tank can still take 4 shots from a ATG/other tank (not considering snares though). So in order to do anything, the squad MUST hit the second time, which brings the number of needed hits from other sources down to 3. Your overall benefit is not really high to be honest.
Combine that with the long reload: You get a squad that in order to achieve anything MUST hit two times, has no high alpha damage and will just bleed MP while trying to fight the tank. If the second salvo misses then good luck, you have gotten nothing. But even if it hits, the threat for the Allied tank is not too big. The single Schreck can sometimes tip the balance in a heated battle, but that's it.

On top of that, the squads that get single Schrecks are (maybe I have forgotten one) OKWs Sturmpioniere, OSTs Sturmtruppen and SOVs AT Partisans. All 4 men squads, two of which have actually an AI focus and high reinforcement cost.

They don't function well with a single Schreck. On the other hand, giving them two might cause other problems.

So my suggestions:
Give an elite Panzerschreck with lower reload time. Buffing damage to 160 would likely be a huge issue, buffing pen would be mostly useless since they already pen most of their targets with 100%. Buffing the reload time would increase the DPS and enable them to be a bigger theat in sustained fights without increasing the alpha damage.

What do you think?

Su-76 can take out most vehicles when in number.

According to test someone did (do not remember currently) they could take out an Elephant (3 or 4 if I remember correctly)

But it's not cost effective anymore.

So I just tested the Elefant statement with 4 SU76:
Yes, it is true. 4 SU76 can kill it. At least two of them die, they take quite a while to kill the Elefant and they have to drive to super close range to somewhat reliably pen. And I tested in a stand-off. Since SU67 is a casemate I also tested for frontal assaults only (although with 4 of the units next to each other there will be side armor shots depending on which SU76 the AI Elefant targets.

Still you invest 4x75 = 300 FU (and lose at least 150 vs Elefant 245) and 4x280 = 1120 MP (lose 560 vs Elefant 720). Side note POP: Su76 need 32 vs 22 of Elefant.

But this is nothing that would happen in a real game. You'd just waste 1-2 SU76 and that's it. You must frontally assault into PaKs because flanking with casemates is very hard. You're probably better off with 3 T34s and doing a real flank to be honest. So while theoretically possible, it's not a real point for the SU76.

Now can this argument be transferred to other units? I think it will work better against a Tiger due to lower armor, but still you need to assault frontally into support units and you always have to go all-in, as the chance to penetrate at long range is about 55% which is probably not enough to deter a Tiger reliably. Instead of 2 SU76 you could also just get a SU85 at this point in the game that at least is slightly more resistant to mis-positioning compared to a SU76.

The SU76 is probably not an inherently bad unit, but there is just no unit worth countering. The SU76 is too expensive for the early game units it could counter. On the other hand it comes relatively early so it rightfully should not be able to counter late game units reliably.

The AI barrage just does not make up for it. SOV have better options at next to every point in the game than an SU76.

Panzer IV lasts as long as a Chinese product.

Please tell me where you get your Chinese products from because I want some of them.


Jokes aside. Yes there obviously are balancing issues. But no, OST is not always coming short as you make it out to be.
They have mediocre main line by design and exceptional support weapons to compensate. Their T2 is situational but cost effective if microed well. T3 has a mix of the best units in the game for their price.

If you want strong main line then play a faction that is designed around it. You also don't buy a compact car and wonder why it does not function well for offroad driving - because it was never meant to be that way.