2 jackson will rape a panther supported by ATG.
Just watched the latest tightrope cast, usf vs okw.
This is greatly coincidence that latest tightrope cast have the same scenario as you watch orangepest in action of a higher level play.
https://youtu.be/tXE-ybrVX9A?t=3646
Two Jacksons (one of which is vet 3) find a lone Panther (only at vet 2), and with the help of the recon plane they get 3 hits in, some from max range, and then charge in, all before the supporting ATG is in position. Of course they will kill the Panther in this scenario, it's 800mp/290fu/80mu vs 490mp/185fu and 290mp that didn't participate in most of the fight.
If you think there's any way the Panther should've stood a chance here, you're quite frankly delusional.
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Yep, single jackson can 1v1 panther now
There is not a single scenario, except incredibly bad player micro, in which that is true.
The Jackson needs 33,25s from the first shot to kill a Panther, not counting misses and bounces.
A Panther needs 19,95s from the first shot to kill a Jackson, not counting misses.
They have identical reload, while the Panther has 50% more health, so go do the math. The 10 range advantage is barely enough for one free shot, and even then, the Panther has enough hitpoints to take the one hit and still out-DPM the Jackson afterwards.
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Do you know what the reasoning is behind that? Or have an idea what it might be anyway
My statement wasn't entirely correct, as I confused it with the reload bonus for a moment.
Only about half the vehicles get an accuracy bonus with veterancy, it seems rather random which ones do and which ones don't. Most medium tanks don't (Panzer IV, Cromwell, T-34s), but some do (M4 Sherman, EZ8, Panzer IV ausf.J). All TDs get it, including the SU-76M, but the StuG ausf.G doesn't. Conventional heavy tanks (Tiger, Tiger II, Pershing, IS-2) get a bonus too.
So it seems like the Panther simply happened to be in the half that didn't get it. Perhaps because the accuracy bonus may have been considered a special thing back when only the Eastern Front armies were around, conditions for which were blurred when the Western Front armies showed up, and it was simply never rectified.
On one hand I don't see a reason why the Panther absolutely shouldn't have it, but on the other hand Panther spam is already very strong in teamgames, so I wouldn't be too eager to buff it. |
What I didn't mention in the OP but find very annoying about the JT is that it can't even reliably kill two Allied TDs from the front. A pair of vet 1 Jacksons always beat it even if you just let them sit AFK in front of the JT. With the SU85 it is more RNG because they don't have 300+ penetration but still often not in favour of the JT.
But that'd be the same with the Elefant? The Elefant and Jagdtiger have 8.75s and 8.8s reload, and 400 armor and 450 armor respectively. Technically the Jagdtiger is better in a frontal afk engagement because of higher bounce chance while having only a negligible lower reload. |
Wonder what it would be like to jump up the accuracy but reduce the moving modifier so it remains the same on the move.
The Panther already has high base accuracy, that's better than medium tanks and more in line with tank destroyers.
It has 0.06/0.045/0.035 at ranges 0/25/50.
Mediums and heavies have 0.05/0.0375/0.025 at ranges 0/20/40 (0/25/50).
The most comparable tank destroyer, the Jackson, has 0.05/0.045/0.35 at ranges 0/30/60. So the Panther is only slightly behind, which is one of the trade-offs for having a (fast) turret, 960 health, good armor and high mobility.
The only thing it truly lacks is a 20-30% accuracy bonus at vet 3, that a lot of other vehicles get. |
Tanks, mortars, howitzers... they can't one shot a sniper anymore.
Tanks and howitzers can, because they deal 120 or more damage on a direct hit. Most of them also have a lethal AOE radius (82 damage or more) of 1-2 range or more, in case of a scatter roll.
Basically anything that deals over 82 damage can oneshot snipers with a direct hit, the exceptions being ATGs and handheld AT weapons because they have special damage modifiers (-75% dmg) versus infantry. Even tank destroyers can oneshot a sniper with a direct hit, although the chance of a direct hit is ~4-6%. |
Health is 80 for every single infantry model.
Snipers have 82 health.
Shock Troops have 1.5 armor compared to 1 armor for everything else. Armor reduces the chance for small arms to penetrate (from 100% to 67%; no penetration is no damage). Most small arms have 1 penetration; flamers, HMGs and LMGs being the exception.
Grenadiers now have a 0.8 damage modifier at vet 3, to offset their vulnerability to the abundancy and power of late game explosive weapons.
Difference between infantry (engineers/line infantry/elites/etc) is created by a stock Target Size modifier (multiplied by accuracy to reduce chances to get hit, effectively increasing health, or decreasing in the case of some units like Conscripts and support weapon teams), and a Received Accuracy modifier (decreases Target Size) that they get with veterancy. |
This is simply a case of a balanced and solid unit that gets overshadowed by another one... the elefant is busted af because it's in a doctrine with spotting scopes and recon planes
I completely agree with Aerafield here, adding that Jaeger Armor also has the Stuka Dive Bomb to kill artillery (and Riegel mines, which win me quite a lot of games personally). I think that the revamped Breakthrough is a great and fun doctrine, the new Jagdtiger is a good unit, and I had hoped that the new Breakthrough would allow OKW to pick the heavy tank destroyer and give Ostheer some more options for commander picks, but Jaeger Armor is just so damn good and versatile that it will never get dethroned from being the top meta pick. It's a case of a good unit/commander being overshadowed by an even better one. |
and the balance team wants to get rid of panzer tactician in this doctrine anyway.
For the record, I always speak only for myself when I comment in threads, unless I specifically state otherwise. I personally would like to remove Panzer Tactician from MobiDef, as I suggested in my previous posts here, to decrease the effectiveness of light vehicle onslaught, so the Puma can be changed to come at a viable timing again. |
Some on the fly ideas from me personally to help make UKF better (even though I think they're not that bad, especially not in teamgames), to fill up some holes and weakness in their early and mid game:
- Perhaps a very small (5-10%) cooldown bonus when in cover, so 4 men Infantry Sections in the early game feel just a bit better, without having much of an influence on performance when they are Bolstered and/or with veterancy and weapon upgrades;
- Smoke barrage added to Pyro Infantry Sections, to substitute the lack of easily accessible indirect fire. Would help to fight HMGs, but by being a barrage and having a delay and shared global cooldown, would prevent it from being spammed like back when Riflemen all had smoke grenades;
- Veteran Squad Leader upgraded added as third option for Infantry Sections; replaces one Lee Enfield with a Thompson, gives the squad a small DPS bonus, and removes the out of cover and movement penalties. Basically a way to make some squads more mobile and less vulnerable to indirect fire, with an STG44 Volksgrenadier-like DPS profile;
- An affordable medic upgrade for the HQ that adds two medics to help heal up support weapons and engineers, because even though Infantry Sections heal is great for frontline healing, it's usually quite hard to keep all other troops healed up;
- Removing grenades tech and making grenades available stock after researching T1, as I don't feel the upgrade is cost effective anymore now that IS spam is no longer a viable strategy. It'd help IS fight elite and CQC infantry without having to invest extra resources;
- Assault Sections changed to 0CP call-in infantry, to give UKF more diverse and surprising opening strats, and help them start on certain CQC orientated maps, even if only in one commander.
Ideally Bolstered would be overhauled so it'd become something that's an interesting and strategic choice, rather than being a mandatory upgrade, but I think that would be a very extensive and risky thing to do, so I'm not sure if that'd be possible or desirable at this point. |