I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who wouldn't trade their fighting infantry slowed down by 2 seconds in order to give Pios a more useful ability. Especially given how rarely such scenarios even happen.
Its a perfectly useful ability. I'd sooner grens have a better vet 1 ability frankly. |
That would be a bonus if ukf sniper Has rof of regular sniper, it does not have rof of regular sniper, so it is not a bonus but a tradeoff, a bad tradeoff in my opinion because in most cases it is still better to not engage LV with a sniper. In my case i only use it to bleed enemy manpower, as most player do with ukf sniper.
So you want an ost sniper clone with none of the drawbacks the ost "pay" for with it? That would be too strong. Tommies are already very capable on defense so an ost clone sniper would be absolutely oppressive if not impossible to kill. Especially for OKW.
The multirole does offer something and the sniper does have base arty as well so it certainly shouldn't perform as the other snipers. Keep it unique and interesting...
Maybe buff it's absolutely and totally neutered crit shot ability. It being able to fuck with light vehicles was quite literally the point of it. I hardly see the issue in it do what it was supposed to..
As for the comet. Make it limited to one and make it worthy of that. It's supposed to be a fucking semi doctrinal elite unit. Quit ducking around and destroying it to prevent people making a bunch of em and just remove that option entirely. |
Pioneer Medkits are redundant and serve extremely limited purpose in the current game. Being available on both Grenadiers and Ostruppen limits their utility to Assault Grenadier openers and 2x Pio, 2x MG42 openers, both of which make dubious use Medkits.
Some Alternatives:
Destroy Cover: With all the discussion about sandbags, I think there needs to be some consideration for easier ways to destroy them early on. Being able to clear opposing cover to give your MGs good sight lines and deny enemy cover would be a useful addition to the faction.
Repair Critical: A missing ability in the faction, Repair Critical would make those early vetted Pioneers more valuable for getting your vehicles back into the fight.
Salvage: Probably unlikely, but it would be a nice way to get a small income boost with Ost.
Also, maybe you can give Rear Echelons a more useful ability while you are at it.
You can find use in medkits on every unit. It's a good tool to have for 4 man squads but somewhat of a Relic of the days where soft retreats were more dominant. At any rate you do not want to slow up your fighting infantry to have to heal your pak. |
Redesign UKF sniper to be a normal sniper, that would be nice, who even builds ukf sniper thinking im going for that kubel or LV.
You don't build it for the AT you bukd it for the sniper and have the bonus of also being able to plink away at lights early on. |
Bazookas and Panzerschrecks require quite a lot of RNG to deal full damage though. At higher ranges Bazookas often miss or they don't pen, Panzerschrecks often miss. The PTRS always hits. As these small tests seem to indicate, now their DPM isn't far behind the average DPM of the others, or at least their higher effective hitpoints makes up for DPM, as long as the others don't get lucky RNG.
TLDR, the original argument was that they wouldn't be able to fight mediums at all. This is not true anymore, they can be quite a threat now. Not far behind other AT infantry.
That completely depends on what metrics you are using.
As said, if the enemy literally sits their tank and walks away, the ptrs is a fine weapon, which works fine for their role as defensive AT. this I've said since ptrs penals were released. I have no issue with their role or how they fill it, but it IS a different role than other hand AT whom can hunt tanks.
Again, I agree with the application of ptrs on penals but dpm is irrelevant in any scenario other than the one they are trying to fill. |
I'm not sure what other situations you'd really want to use them or any AT infantry in. They're also not suddenly going to do so much worse than the others on open ground or while chasing. PTRS rifles have more range than other handheld AT weapons, they can't miss, they fire just as fast as zookas and Pschrecks now, and Penals have more effective hitpoints. And now they have the DPM to match the others too. And best of all, tanks can't push them around without eating a satchel.
Hand AT, with the exception of PTRS are about burst damage. The DPM on the penals might be the same as other AT but a misstep in front of pgrens or fussies mean 240 damage off your tank, penals are half that.
If course soviet AT infantry fill a slightly different role. Their being a ward as opposed to something to hunt and the 3rd PTRS will make that meaningful. But their job is to protect their vulnerable casemate AT. Not hunt enemies. so the different application of damage in combination of the snare is acceptable. |
My post is response to claim that is simply false, vet 5 VG are not stronger than vet 3 7 men conscripts.
VGs are long range infatry mainline infatry, but feel free to do the test every 5 meters if you want a more complete picture.
Volks arnt long range infantry they are every range infantry, at least after the stg upgrade hits slightly after 45 seconds into the game.
Volks have the tools to be aggressive against cons in an insta throw long range cover denial grenade and weapons that work well on the move.
Regardless cons are SUPPOSED to be cost effective defenders late game as they are nothing more than that due to no concentrated DPS or burst damage of any sort.
Whats more, cons don't have things like obers to support them every game.
That's not to say volks vet doesn't need a looksy but comparing a unit in its element to one that is not as a means to paint a picture is uninformative and extremely misleading.
Cons dont have to rush anything. Thats the problem. They win long range, so Volks have to close distance, but while advancing you are likely to lose models cause volks have omegabad rec acc. There is no way that volks win over 7man cons. But they dont have to. There are Obers and the 7man upgrade comse way later than Stgs so Volks have a window of pportunity there.
See above.
|
Have you tested vet 5 VG vs vet3 7 men conscripts in cover to cover fight?
seems stacked doesn't it? pitting offensive infantry against a unit whos entire job is to outlast the enemy, with an upgrade specifically to make that happen in a scenario that inherently favors that?
can we test ostroppen in cover against shocks in cover at max range next to determine who is the better unit? |
So "X gets Y for free, while Z have to pay", arent really helping anybody.
the issue isnt in that such a system is in place, its that some people dont acknowledge that it IS an extra cost.
at the end of the day the molitov is "only" 80mp and 10 fuel, but its an extra cost that directly inflates the cost of cons.
pretending its not an additional cost helps even less. |
Tbh here, I never understood all this free and paid stuff shenanigans. We cant lets say compare ost free unlocks to UKF\USF free stuff. Aswell as we cant compare soviet free stuff to OKW free stuff.
All that matters at the end of the day - how fast factions can reach their first tank. Right now, if we consider realistic play, with all usuall side grades, free grades, weapon upgrades and so on. All the faction more or less have fair timing in terms of how fast they can have\get their armor and armor counters.
I think this is what matters the most.
for what its worth, i dont have a problem with con side grades, in theory. they allow cons to be cheap enough for map control and then built up into what you need/want at a later time. again in theory.
The thing with this system, is that the unit IS more expensive due to the addition cost of the extras. if this is accounted for then its a great system- but soviet are paying roughtly the same as their enemeies for cons as they are for their mainline, but then extra for these upgrades and the 160mp for tech nukes their mapcontrol... if you tewch t1/2 at the start and want molitovs you have removed an entire consquad worth of manpower for an ability that really isnt worthwhile unless you are vetted, at which point the short range and maneuverabil8ty in mid game punishes it as well..
i guess basicly, what im getting at is that its a lot of drawbacks and not a lot of benefit |
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