Problem with utility of SU-76 are T-70 and T4. Now T-70 can deal with LV and infantry. You don't need anything apart from t-70. I really can't imagine what kind of "utility" you want to add to SU-76 to make it playable. It's already "less zis on wheels" , but it never used in T1 because delay your T4 with all 3 crucial armor units and don't provide feild control. No one in sane will be build su-76 to then faces with angry P4, because right in the moment as you build SU-76 to counter P4, axis will get +75 fuel "gandicap". No any su-85, t-34, 7-th cons, no unlock for heavies don't arrive next 165 fuel or roughly 7 minutes (24 fuel in minute medium value if you have half map under control). Even lonely t-34 now better counter against P4, because give you at least mobility and good firepower aginst soft targets.
If you go to T1 much safer choice play defensive doctrine with 2 baby-at guns neither build su-76 to counter mediums. You don't delay your crucial tier, you don't lost field pressure because T-70 and you can survive until T4 will be deployed.
The T70 needs nerfed a bit so the power of the T70 isn't being taken into account with my suggestion as, for all we know it's going to get the sturmtiger treatment where it's technically there but realisticly it isn't. The Overpowered T70 shouldn't be used as a metric to not change another unit in its tier to something more useful anyways... As forgetting the su76 making you helpless against the p4.... What? You know this is an AT unit primarily right? Like... It shoots tanks.... That's what it does. Furthermore, WHEN the T70 gets nerfed a version of 7man could be moved to t3 to compensate for the power spike being blunted and focused on a single unit and instead the power spike would be in conscripts where it should have been in the first place. That alone might give rise to seeing more halftrack support.
But back to the su76 and how giving it smoke and a slight scaling rework works- the synergy with T1 would be astounding. Giving smoke to normal penals would be great, furthermore AT penals would help the squishy su76 keep from getting Dove on. It's practically a match made in heaven. You get a zis and a mortar all in one mobile and armored package and those are all things that T1 lacks |
His specific statement was
"repair trucks are a bonus to have, but not a replacement for ST-pios, and getting 2 ST-pio's is 600MP and 16 pop, high cost."
Which is pretty much exactly what I was getting at. They are a benefit sure, but are no replacement for an actual squad due both to lack of mobility and to lack of utility tools on the structure itself. And in fact, the second part is IMO the most important, for lower pop cap other factions can have THREE sweeper squads in the field, and are easier to replace.
Other factions can have 3 sweepers for the same price but aside from sweeping they are worse off as those squads do their jobs worse. Again, sturms are supposed to be limited and overworked. That's the theme of the faction. Not to say slightly cheaper and weaker sturms that upgrade into refined units wouldn't be a miss, but they are not supposed to match the enemy's numbers. |
The problem is that as nice as it is to have auto repairs at base, they ONLY repair(vehicles).
Unfortunately sturmpioneers are tasked with wiring off cover, laying mines, building doctrinal defenses, doing mine sweeping, repairing vehicles AND structures as well as functioning in the combat role. Most factions end up with 3-4 squads to do all of this, while OKW rarely gets more than 2 and often only has 1. If the only thing sturmpios did was repair, this wouldn't be an issue.
This is why I think that some of that utility needs to be offloaded onto other units.
The complaint was that if you over extend your sturms and get punished for it by a wipe you are unable to repair your tanks, which simply isn't true.
Sturms are a critical ubut that covers a lot of ground this is true but if people don't over do their combat its a non issue.
That said it might be nice if the kuble could sweep. Combined with its map hax it would make it a sweet little scout |
That sort of anti-medium/anti-heavy split doesn't work. CoH 2's armies are very small, which heavily favours generalists.
The SU-85 is already heavily specialised: it's an expensive, cumbersome, easily flanked casemate that can't inflict any manpower bleed.
If you specialise the SU-85 and SU-76 to the point where you need both, you'll get neither. You'll get ZiS guns.
The split specialists don't work if that's all they bring to the table. A medium counter and a heavy counter are cumbersome. That's why the added utility for the su76 so that once you need to transition into heavy AT the unit retains some battlefield value. Additionally, if it was more or less a zis on tracks combined with a mortar it would synergize well with t1 that lacks both of those things. Utility to provide the scaling that raw firepower makes OP is the key I believe. |
Mate just chill. UKF has all of these things and it is fine  Why shouldn't ost have them? Oh, and I hope You will show me how to use 4 men grens. Pleas feel free to demonstrate. You could upload a replay.
Well off the top of my head if say because ost isn't brits, they are a different faction. Then after that I'd add that ost wasn't designed with that in mind, brits were and even then it's being a nightmare to make balanced. Thirdly it doesn't suit grens design even if the other 2 were feasible |
I wonder if you could rework Blitz to target an area of ground, and the tank'll make a really fast beeline to that location (like Ram)?
You wouldn't be able to use that to retreat, because the tank would insist on turning around.
Now that's a work around. I like it! |
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I dig it |
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You get the JT to say fuck you to enemy armour. It can't bounce if I recall and the barrage ability is actually very potent against team weapons who struggle to move. It's mostly a team game unit though and that's fine. |
You all seem to be arguing despite all ultimately agreeing:
There's nothing the SU-76 is needed for before the SU-85 is available, and once the SU-85 is available there's no need for the SU-76.
Which is a Problem. Rather THE problem. Tuning the su85 towards heavy Armour and having the su76 for lights and mediums (have an upgrade to full damage once t4 is built?) and indirect support would have room for both units. |
As far as vet abilities go it does deeply annoy me that the more durable Axis tanks have a get-out-of-jail-free card while the Allied tanks are just expected to die if you make a mistake, or in the case of the T-34, encouraged to die via Ram.
Blitz wasn't intended to be a get out of jail free card but a get up in them gets card. Engine limitations however devolved it to a run for your life kinda thing.
As for allied tanks, they focus on utility. Not necessarily expendablity. Both western tanks get smoke, Sherman gets blob bonuses. The t34 does have ram, but that's a big picture ability. |
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